Moderator: Ras
Code: Select all
Legal moves: 39 Static score: -9
Ply Score Time Nodes Best move and expected line
------------------------------------------------------------
2 1 0 587 Bb7 Kh2 exd5
2 39 0 828 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5
3 39 1 2731 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7
4 39 3 6608 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7
5 15 11 25780 Nxd5 < - > Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 Kf7
5 -60 11 26365 Nxd5 < - > Nxd5 Bc3
5 -130 15 34288 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 Ba6 Nxa8
5 -129 17 36303 Bb7 < + > Kh2 Re8-d8
5 -54 18 38594 Bb7 < + > Kh2 Re8-d8
5 14 31 69810 Bb7 Kh2 exd5 cxd5 fxe4 Bxf6
6 5 108 265718 Bb7 Kh2 c6 Nb3 exd5 Nxc5 bxc5
6 6 114 279665 Nxd5 < + > Nxd5 Qxg5 Kh1
6 28 118 289355 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 Kh1
7 4 162 384258 Nxd5 < - > Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 Kh1 Kf7
7 -71 164 387719 Nxd5 < - > Nxd5 exd5 Bxe7 Rxe7
7 -138 179 419084 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 Ba6 f4 Qe7 Nxa8
7 -137 181 424332 Bb7 < + > Kh2 c6 Nb3 exd5 Nxc5 bxc5
7 -62 186 431189 Bb7 < + > Kh2 c6 Nb3 exd5 Nxc5 bxc5
7 14 415 990806 Bb7 Kg1 exd5 cxd5 Qe5 Kh2 fxe4 Bxf6
8 13 1489 3604489 Bb7 Rf1-e1 c6 Kh2 cxd5 cxd5 h6 Bxf6 Qxf6
8 14 1515 3664382 Nxd5 < + > Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 a3 Bxb2 Nxe8 Qxg3+
8 48 1543 3736583 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 g4 Qh4 Nxe8 Qg3+ Kh1 Qxh3+ Kg1 Bd4+ Rf2 Qg3+ Kh1
9 26 1690 4041198 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 Rh1 Qxg3+ Kf1 Bb7 Nxa8 Rxa8
10 48 3347 7919444 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 g4 Qh4 Nxe8 Qg3+ Kh1 Qxh3+ Kg1 Bd4+ Rf2 Qg3+ Kh1
11 48 4483 10440919 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 g4 Qh4 Nxe8 Qg3+ Kh1 Qxh3+ Kg1 Bd4+ Rf2 Qg3+ Kh1
12 72 7203 17499819 Nxd5 < + > Nxd5 Qxg5 Nxc7 f4 g4 Qh4 Nxe6 Bxe6 Rf1-e1
12 121 24709 58476037 Nxd5 cxd5 Qxg5 f4 Qe7 Bb5 Rf8 Bc6 Ba6 Bxa8 Bd3 Qc1 Bxf1+ Rxf1
13 124 52242 120476290 Nxd5 cxd5 Qxg5 Bb5 Rf8 f4 Qe7 Bc6 Rb8 Kh2 Ba6 Rf1-e1 fxe4 Nd2xe4
14 116 90681 219557274 Nxd5 cxd5 Qxg5 Bb5 Rf8 exf5 Qxf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Nd2-e4 exd5 Nxd5 Rf7 Nxc5 bxc5
Total nodes:291449911 n/sec:243700 (q-nodes:39% max depth:34)
Ron Murawski wrote:[d]r1b1r1k1/2p1q1bp/1p1ppnp1/p1nP1pB1/2P1P3/2N2PPP/PPQNB1K1/3R1R2 b - - 0 18
18...Nxd5!
Perhaps this is easier for humans than engines? But I'm sure *some* engine(s) will solve it quickly!
Code: Select all
Time Depth Score Positions Moves
0:00 1/4 -0.74 10683 18...Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7
0:00 1/5 -0.58 22361 18...Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7
f4 21.Nxe8 Qxg3+ 22.Kh1 Qxh3+ 23.Kg1
Bd4+ 24.Rf2 Bxf2+ 25.Kxf2
0:00 1/6 -0.58 38574 18...Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7
f4 21.Nxe8 Qxg3+ 22.Kh1 Qxh3+ 23.Kg1
Bd4+ 24.Rf2 Bxf2+ 25.Kxf2
0:01 1/7 0.00 147038 18...Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7
f4 21.g4 Qh4 22.Nxe8 Qg3+ 23.Kh1
Qxh3+ 24.Kg1 Qg3+ 25.Kh1 Qh3+
0:05 1/7 -0.22 778285 18...a4 19.h4 Bb7 20.b4 axb3ep
21.axb3 Qf7 22.Rfe1 fxe4 23.fxe4
exd5 24.cxd5
0:07 1/7 -0.36 1025120 18...Ba6 19.f4 fxe4 20.Ndxe4 Ncxe4
21.Nxe4 exd5
0:12 1/8 -0.49 1774594 18...Ba6 19.Nb3 Nxd5 20.cxd5 Qxg5
21.f4 Qe7 22.Nxc5 Bxe2 23.Qxe2 bxc5
0:14 1/8 -0.54 1963331 18...Ng4 19.Bf4 e5 20.fxg4 exf4
21.Rxf4 Bh6 22.gxf5 Bxf4 23.gxf4
gxf5
0:21 1/8 -0.58 2920370 18...Bb7 19.Bh4 h6 20.f4 exd5 21.Nxd5
Qf7 22.Nxf6+ Bxf6 23.Bxf6 Qxf6
0:33 1/9 -0.40 4747528 18...Bb7 19.Rfe1 Ng4 20.fxg4 Qxg5
21.Nf3 Qh6 22.exf5 exf5 23.gxf5
1:12 1/10 -0.39 10188711 18...Bb7 19.Rfe1 h6 20.Be3 fxe4
21.Bxc5 dxc5 22.Ndxe4 Nxe4 23.fxe4
exd5 24.cxd5 Bxc3 25.Qxc3 Qxe4+
26.Bf3
1:44 1/10 -0.51 14881577 18...Ng4 19.hxg4 Qxg5 20.f4 Qf6
21.dxe6 Bxe6 22.gxf5 gxf5 23.Bh5
2:04 1/10 -0.92 18012257 18...Nxd5 19.cxd5 Qxg5 20.Bb5 Ba6
21.h4 Qe7 22.Bxa6 Rxa6 23.Rc1 Qd7
2:20 1/11 -0.92 20597200 18...Nxd5 19.cxd5 Qxg5 20.Bb5 Ba6
21.h4 Qe7 22.Bxa6 Rxa6 23.Rc1 Raa8
3:32 1/12 -0.67 32140420 18...Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7
f4 21.g4 Qh4 22.Nb3 Qg3+ 23.Kh1
Qxh3+ 24.Kg1 Nxb3 25.axb3 Qg3+
26.Kh1 Bb7 27.Nxa8 Rxa8 28.Rxd6
It looks like 18...Nxd5 is good for a draw only, and probably a silent move like Bb7 may be better. But it is somewhat tricky, because after 18... Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7 f4, and again after 21.g4 Qh4, White does not have time to capture one of the rooks because of mate. But if he plays 22.Nb3 which defends against Bg7-d4, I think Black's best choice is to go for the perpetual with Qg3+ etc. Although I am not 100% sure if deeper analysis couldn't find an improvement for Black.bob wrote:what is the punch line after Nxd5 Nxd5???
Mike's analysis looks flawless. I missed the white knight fork at c7; I was too enamoured of the black threat of simultaneously forking king, queen, and 2 rooks. I really should run these positions overnight before posting! The position is busted!Mike S. wrote:It looks like 18...Nxd5 is good for a draw only, and probably a silent move like Bb7 may be better. But it is somewhat tricky, because after 18... Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7 f4, and again after 21.g4 Qh4, White does not have time to capture one of the rooks because of mate. But if he plays 22.Nb3 which defends against Bg7-d4, I think Black's best choice is to go for the perpetual with Qg3+ etc. Although I am not 100% sure if deeper analysis couldn't find an improvement for Black.bob wrote:what is the punch line after Nxd5 Nxd5???
[Event "?""]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1b1r1k1/2p1q1bp/1p1ppnp1/p1nP1pB1/2P1P3/2N2PPP/PPQNB1K1/3R1R2 b - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "14"]
18... Nxd5 19. Nxd5 Qxg5 20. Nxc7 f4 21. g4 (21. Nxa8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Bd4 {
(no defense against Qxh3#)}) (21. Nxe8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Qxh3+ {is a long mate.})
21... Qh4 22. Nb3 (22. Rh1 Qg3+ 23. Kf1 Bd4 {followed by Qf2#}) (22. Nxa8 Qg3+
23. Kh1 Bd4 {(again no defense against Qxh3#)}) (22. Nxe8 Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Bd4 24.
Nf6+ Kh8 {(same)}) 22... Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Qxh3+ 24. Kg1 Qg3+ 25. Kh1 *
that was my point. I thought this was a move to win the game by black, but it is a drawing move with that white response. Hence my question...Mike S. wrote:It looks like 18...Nxd5 is good for a draw only, and probably a silent move like Bb7 may be better. But it is somewhat tricky, because after 18... Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7 f4, and again after 21.g4 Qh4, White does not have time to capture one of the rooks because of mate. But if he plays 22.Nb3 which defends against Bg7-d4, I think Black's best choice is to go for the perpetual with Qg3+ etc. Although I am not 100% sure if deeper analysis couldn't find an improvement for Black.bob wrote:what is the punch line after Nxd5 Nxd5???
[Event "?""]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1b1r1k1/2p1q1bp/1p1ppnp1/p1nP1pB1/2P1P3/2N2PPP/PPQNB1K1/3R1R2 b - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "14"]
18... Nxd5 19. Nxd5 Qxg5 20. Nxc7 f4 21. g4 (21. Nxa8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Bd4 {
(no defense against Qxh3#)}) (21. Nxe8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Qxh3+ {is a long mate.})
21... Qh4 22. Nb3 (22. Rh1 Qg3+ 23. Kf1 Bd4 {followed by Qf2#}) (22. Nxa8 Qg3+
23. Kh1 Bd4 {(again no defense against Qxh3#)}) (22. Nxe8 Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Bd4 24.
Nf6+ Kh8 {(same)}) 22... Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Qxh3+ 24. Kg1 Qg3+ 25. Kh1 *
After following your main line to 23. Kh1, Spike 1.2 thinks black can do better than forcing a draw and wants 23.. Bb7. I don't see any really convincing continuation there, but I'm not sure there isn't one.Mike S. wrote:It looks like 18...Nxd5 is good for a draw only, and probably a silent move like Bb7 may be better. But it is somewhat tricky, because after 18... Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7 f4, and again after 21.g4 Qh4, White does not have time to capture one of the rooks because of mate. But if he plays 22.Nb3 which defends against Bg7-d4, I think Black's best choice is to go for the perpetual with Qg3+ etc. Although I am not 100% sure if deeper analysis couldn't find an improvement for Black.
[Event "?""]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1b1r1k1/2p1q1bp/1p1ppnp1/p1nP1pB1/2P1P3/2N2PPP/PPQNB1K1/3R1R2 b - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "14"]
18... Nxd5 19. Nxd5 Qxg5 20. Nxc7 f4 21. g4 (21. Nxa8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Bd4 {
(no defense against Qxh3#)}) (21. Nxe8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Qxh3+ {is a long mate.})
21... Qh4 22. Nb3 (22. Rh1 Qg3+ 23. Kf1 Bd4 {followed by Qf2#}) (22. Nxa8 Qg3+
23. Kh1 Bd4 {(again no defense against Qxh3#)}) (22. Nxe8 Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Bd4 24.
Nf6+ Kh8 {(same)}) 22... Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Qxh3+ 24. Kg1 Qg3+ 25. Kh1 *
looks to me like you end up with the same draw there as well... If Bb7 then white takes on a8 and now black has to find a way to recover the material or else take the draw and run.Dirt wrote:After following your main line to 23. Kh1, Spike 1.2 thinks black can do better than forcing a draw and wants 23.. Bb7. I don't see any really convincing continuation there, but I'm not sure there isn't one.Mike S. wrote:It looks like 18...Nxd5 is good for a draw only, and probably a silent move like Bb7 may be better. But it is somewhat tricky, because after 18... Nxd5 19.Nxd5 Qxg5 20.Nxc7 f4, and again after 21.g4 Qh4, White does not have time to capture one of the rooks because of mate. But if he plays 22.Nb3 which defends against Bg7-d4, I think Black's best choice is to go for the perpetual with Qg3+ etc. Although I am not 100% sure if deeper analysis couldn't find an improvement for Black.
[Event "?""]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.07.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r1b1r1k1/2p1q1bp/1p1ppnp1/p1nP1pB1/2P1P3/2N2PPP/PPQNB1K1/3R1R2 b - - 0 18"]
[PlyCount "14"]
18... Nxd5 19. Nxd5 Qxg5 20. Nxc7 f4 21. g4 (21. Nxa8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Bd4 {
(no defense against Qxh3#)}) (21. Nxe8 Qxg3+ 22. Kh1 Qxh3+ {is a long mate.})
21... Qh4 22. Nb3 (22. Rh1 Qg3+ 23. Kf1 Bd4 {followed by Qf2#}) (22. Nxa8 Qg3+
23. Kh1 Bd4 {(again no defense against Qxh3#)}) (22. Nxe8 Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Bd4 24.
Nf6+ Kh8 {(same)}) 22... Qg3+ 23. Kh1 Qxh3+ 24. Kg1 Qg3+ 25. Kh1 *
Just taking Spike's preferred move after a few seconds leads to this:bob wrote:looks to me like you end up with the same draw there as well... If Bb7 then white takes on a8 and now black has to find a way to recover the material or else take the draw and run.