Rybka-Junior match is off.

[AdminX]

There will be no Rybka-Junior Match, well save unless you do it yourself. It all came down to where there systems were to be located plus a few other points.

http://www.chessninja.com/download/rybk ... h-levy.pdf

[Tony Thomas]

wow, that sure was a long one.

[Nid Hogge]

There will be no Rybka-Junior Match, well save unless you do it yourself. It all came down to where there systems were to be located plus a few other points.

http://www.chessninja.com/download/rybk ... h-levy.pdf

Look, I don't like this whole "Junior sacrified everything for the match while Rybka kept rejecting* approach, but I really can't understand the Rybka team decision.

First I really can't see a reason why Vasik can't handle things himself and evertything goes through the manager.
Amir and Shay didn't need a manager to respond for them.

In any case if the Rybka team is so deeply sunk with paranoia that they wer'e going to cheat, why did they offer the match in the first place?

You can't always get what you want! If they ever wanna get a match versus anyone they better start compromising.

[AGove]

Perhaps it was a translation error. When Convekta learnt that they were guaranteeing 100,000 dollars rather than roubles, the negotiations had to be spiked.

[M ANSARI]

Convekta is the one putting up the money ... so I guess they will have more pull than Vasik on this one. I guess they figure $100,000 is plenty of incentive to try and cheat. Personally I think that the Junior camp would never do such a thing and that they have an impeccable reputation when it comes to honesty. I have no idea why they would disagree to give out log files .... I don't think there is much useful information if any in log files.

Having said that ... Convekta should have the right to ask for equal conditions since they are putting up the money. They have a lot to lose if cheating did occur. They might be thinking that the other side could simply use a certain type of Junior that could use passive output from an existing Rybka engine. This is a project I am working on and it is actually very easy to implement. You run Rybka on a very powerful computer ... then run Junior on another remote computer .... One engine passively checks the moves of the other and when there is a large differential the engine will send that line to engine one. So basically Junior could be playing with Rybka assistance ... and thus play much much stronger. This is very easy to implement and would be impossible to detect as the assisting engine remains passive until a threshold is reached on a certain move. Still that would assume that the other party is motivated to cheat ... and I think that the Amir camp have a very good reputation for being honest.

I am sure the person who is the most disappointed will be Vasik. He has revolutionized computer chess as we know it, yet this is fact known to just a few people. Such a match would have been a tremendous incentive for Vasik to improve the scaling of Rybka ... something a lot of people were hoping for. I actually received an email from him only a few days ago telling me that it looks like the match would be on. Anyway things have a way of working themselves out ... maybe it is not final.

[AdminX]

“We agree, that log file can be provided not during the match itself, but
immediately after it’s ending. We also need ordinary commercial version (for
example, Junior engine for Fritz interface and Rybka UCI engine) to check the
way, the log file during the game was got. This version should be analogous to
that one, which took part in the match.”

The Junior team did not like this proposal one little bit, as the data could be used to allow
the programmer of Rybka or other future opponents of Junior to learn some useful
information that could be used in preparation for a future match or tournament.

That was a really big concession from the Junior Team. Yet it seems and even bigger concession from the Rybka team. Given the Strelka incident, I am not sure I would trust my code in the hands of a competitor these days. I wonder if Sergey started to worry about losing his money, would it have broke his company.

[Christopher Conkie]

Convekta is the one putting up the money ... so I guess they will have more pull than Vasik on this one. I guess they figure $100,000 is plenty of incentive to try and cheat. Personally I think that the Junior camp would never do such a thing and that they have an impeccable reputation when it comes to honesty. I have no idea why they would disagree to give out log files .... I don't think there is much useful information if any in log files.

And the cow jumped over the moon....

Junior is a strong engine...yes....with an impeccable reputation.....no.

The only way to be fair is to have local, equal spec machines, with no outside connections.

Junior would never agree to that.

Now you need to ask yourself why.

BTW have you ever heard of advance chess? David Levy seems not to have.......

Christopher

[dj]

Christopher Conkie wrote:

The only way to be fair is to have local, equal spec machines, with no outside connections.

Junior would never agree to that.

Now you need to ask yourself why.

I have asked myself why and one of the many answers is that there is no reason why Junior should agree to this when it is not done in other matches and tournaments. In addition there would be the obvious argument that a particular specification suited one program more than another. Btw would you advocate Hydra playing in this manner in natches and tournaments?

[Jouni]

No interest at all. Junior is so weak: Look for CEGT:

Rybka - Deep Junior 10.1 2CPU 33 + 22 = 9 - 2 = 80.3 %

Waste of time...

Jouni

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

No interest at all. Junior is so weak: Look for CEGT:

Rybka - Deep Junior 10.1 2CPU 33 + 22 = 9 - 2 = 80.3 %

Waste of time...

Jouni

Yeah,Junior is a good tournament player when there is a lot of participating chess engines....
In a direct match up against Rybka it will get crushed like a bug