interesting position

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beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: interesting position

Post by beachknight »

My findings:

Code: Select all


5k1r/r3b2p/p3Qp2/qp1p4/8/2R5/ - 1 h4
25.08.2007

Crafty 20.14 w32: 1) 1.Rc8+ Kg7 2.Qg4+ Kf7 3.Rxe7+ Rxe7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Qg4+ Kh6 6.Qh4+ Kg6 7.Qg4+ Kh6  0.00/16
Crafty 20.14 w32: 2) 1.Kf1 Kg7 2.Qg4+ Kf7 3.Qe6+ Kg7  0.00/6 ; 

Deep Shredder 9: 1) 1.h4 h6 2.h5  3.25/15 ; 
Deep Shredder 9: 1) 1.h4 Qb4 2.Ree3 Ra8 3.Rc8+ Rxc8 4.Qxc8+ Kg7 5.Rg3+ Kf7 6.Qxh8 Qe1+ 7.Kh2 Bd6 8.Qxh7+ Ke8 9.Qh8+ Kf7
10.Qg8+ Ke7 11.Qg7+ Ke8 12.Qxf6 Bxg3+ 13.fxg3 Qb1 14.Qxa6  3.46/16 ; 
Deep Shredder 9: 2) 1.Rc8+ Kg7 2.Qg4+ Kf7 3.b4 Qxb4 4.Qxb4 Bxb4 5.Rxh8 Kg7 6.Ree8 a5 7.Ra8 Re7 8.Rhe8  0.51/16 ; 

Fruit II Per_040907 : 1.h4 h5 2.b4 Qxb4 3.Ree3 Ra8 4.Rc8+ Rxc8 5.Qxc8+ Kf7 6.Qxh8 Qb1+ 7.Kh2 Bd6+ 8.g3 Qxc2 9.Qxh5+ Kg7
10.Qg4+ Kf8 11.Re2 Qc3  0.95/16 ; 

Alaric 707: 1.Rc8+ Kg7 2.Qg4+ Kf7 3.b4 Qxb4 4.Qxb4 Bxb4 5.Rxh8 Kg7 6.Ree8 Rc7 7.Rc8 Rxc2 8.Rxc2 Kxh8 9.Rc7  0.48/15 ; 
Alaric 707: 1.h4 h5 2.b4 Qxb4 3.Ree3 Ra8 4.Rc8+ Rxc8 5.Qxc8+ Kf7 6.Qxh8 Qb1+ 7.Kh2 Bd6+ 8.g3 Qxc2 9.Qxh5+ Kg7 10.Kg2  0.64/15 ; 

Spike 1.2 Turin: 1) 1.Rc8+ Kg7 2.Qg4+ Kf7 3.b4 Qxb4 4.Qxb4 Bxb4 5.Rxh8 Kg7 6.Ree8 a5 7.g3 Rc7 8.Reg8+ Kh6 9.Rc8 Re7 10.Rhe8 
Re4 11.f3 Re5  0.80/17 ; 
Spike 1.2 Turin: 2) 1.Kf1 Kg7 2.Rg3+ Kf8 3.Rc3  0.00/11
Spike 1.2 Turin: 1) 1.h4 h5 2.b4 Qxb4 3.Ree3 Qd6 4.Rc8+ Kg7 5.Rg3+ Qxg3 6.fxg3 Rxc8 7.Qxc8 Kf7 8.Qc6 d4 9.g4 hxg4 10.Qd5+ 
Ke8 11.Qxd4  1.24/17 ; 
Spike 1.2 Turin: 2) 1.Rc8+ Kg7 2.Qg4+ Kf7 3.b4 Qxb4 4.Qxb4 Bxb4 5.Rxh8 Kg7 6.Ree8 a5 7.g3 Rc7 8.Reg8+ Kh6 9.Rc8 Re7 10.Rhe8 
Re4 11.f3 Re5  0.80/17
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   Eelco de Groot

Re: interesting position, 3.b4 enough to win?

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Eelco de Groot wrote:Maybe Black's biggest disadvantage is that it has too many "islands" of pawns, -well, they are really most just isolated pawns I suppose-, that do not work together if any enemy pawns can approach them especially White's f, g, and h-pawn, and they are vulnerable because White has two Rooks to attack them.

Here is output from Hiarcs 11.2 in the position after 3.b4 Qxb4 4.Qxb4 Bxb4 5.Rxh8 Kg6:


[d]7R/r6p/p4pk1/1p1p4/1b6/8/2P2PPP/4R1K1 w - -

Engine: HIARCS 11.2 [7,13,7] (256 MB)
by Mark John Uniacke

23/51 484:58 +1.17 6.Rg8+ Kf7 7.Ree8 Rc7 8.Rc8 Rxc2
9.Rxc2 Kxg8 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8
12.Rb8 b4 13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2
15.Rb5 Ba3 16.Rb7 (6.023.633.529) 207 TB:470

best move: Rh8-g8 time: 515:12.093 min n/s: 203.305 nodes: 6.284.548.597 TB: 470
In this variation chosen by Hiarcs White trades down a Pawn and a Rook against a Rook, maybe that is not the best way to go, if I let Hiarcs calculate further after 10.Kf1 a5 (5.Kf1 a5 in the variation below starting at one again in the diagrammed position) the eval goes down to about one pawn plus for White, but no further progress:

[FEN "7R/r6p/p4pk1/1p1p4/1b6/8/2P2PPP/4R1K1 w - - 0 1"]

1. Rg8+ Kf7 2. Ree8 Rc7 3. Rc8 Rxc2 4. Rxc2 Kxg8 5. Kf1 a5


00:00:01.7 0,06 10 397436 Rc8+
00:00:01.8 0,31 10 420263 Rc8+
00:00:02.1 0,56 10 494075 Rc8+ Bf8 Rb8 b4 Ra8 a4 Rxa4 b3 Ra1 b2 Rb1 Ba3
00:00:04.4 0,59 11 993866 Rc8+ Bf8 Ra8 a4 Ra5 Kf7 Rxb5 Ke6 Ke2 a3 Ra5 Bd6 Ra6
00:00:08.9 0,77 12 2031836 Rc8+ Bf8 Rb8 b4 Ra8 b3 Rxa5 b2 Rb5 Ba3 Rb7 d4 Ke2 f5
00:00:20.7 0,96 13 4463683 Rc8+ Bf8 Rb8 b4 Ra8 b3 Rxa5 b2 Rb5 Ba3 Rb7 Kf8 Ke2 Kg8 g4
00:00:41.7 1,21 14 8650788 Rc8+
00:00:48.8 1,22 14 10014350 Rc8+ Bf8 Rb8 b4 Ra8 b3 Rxa5 b2 Rb5 Ba3 Rb7 Kf8 Ke2 Kg8 Kd3 f5
00:01:47.0 1,25 15 21165255 Rc8+ Bf8 Rb8 b4 Ra8 b3 Rxa5 b2 Rb5 Ba3 Rb7 f5 Ke2 f4 Kd3 f3 gxf3
00:04:19.9 1,29 16 49219056 Rc8+ Bf8 Rb8 b4 Ra8 Kf7 Rxa5 Ke6 Ke2 Bd6 Rb5 f5 Rb6 Ke5
00:25:13.6 1,30 17 277009699 Rc8+ Kf7 Rb8 Ke6 Rxb5 Kd6 Ke2 Kc6 Rb8 Bc5 Ra8 Kb5 g4 a4 f4 Bd6 Ke3 a3
00:54:07.2 1,22 18 597664451 Rc8+ Kf7 Rb8 Ke6 Rxb5 Kd6 Ke2 Kc6 Rb8 Bc5 Ra8 Kb5 g4 a4 f4
02:05:29.0 1,07 19 1399063491 Rc8+ Kf7 Rb8 Ke6 Rxb5 Ke5 Ke2 Kd4 g4 Kc4 Rb7 a4 Rxh7 a3 Ra7 Kb3
04:56:21.4 1,19 20 3249097982 Rc8+ Kf7 Rb8 Ke6 Ke2 Kd7 Rxb5 Kc6 Rb8 f5 Rh8 a4 Rxh7 a3 Ra7
12:29:46.8 1,05 21 3745511373 Rc8+ Kf7 Rb8 Ke6 Ke2 Kd7 Rxb5 Kc6 Rb8 Bc5 g4 a4 f3 a3 Kd3 Ba7 Rc8+ Kb5

Analysis by Hiarcs 11.0 in ChessPartner with 64 Mb hash

But instead of 10.Kf1 a5 it is maybe possible to play a bit better with 10.Rc6 a5 and although White is still trading a Pawn and Rook for a Rook, in that case the eval is just a bit higher after a long analysis:

[FEN "5k1r/r3b2p/p3Qp2/qp1p4/8/2R5/1PP2PPP/4R1K1 w - -"]

1. Rc8+ Kg7 2. Qg4+ Kf7 3. b4 Qxb4 4. Qxb4 Bxb4 5. Rxh8 Kg6
6. Rg8+ Kf7 7. Ree8 Rc7 8. Rc8 Rxc2 9. Rxc2 Kxg8 *


[d]6k1/7p/p4p2/1p1p4/1b6/8/2R2PPP/6K1 w - -

Engine: HIARCS 11.2 [7,13,7] (256 MB)
by Mark John Uniacke

8/18 0:13 +0.40 10.Rc6 a5 11.Rxf6 Bc3 12.Rf5 a4
13.Rg5+ Kf7 14.Rxd5 (26.099) 26

9/18 0:19 +0.32 10.Rc6 a5 11.Rb6 d4 12.Rxb5 d3
13.Kf1 Kf7 14.Rd5 (49.647) 26

9/18 0:19 +1.17++ 10.Kf1 (49.674) 26

9/18 0:19 +1.17 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Rb7 (49.779) 26

10/18 0:21 +0.92-- 10.Kf1 (54.515) 26

10/18 0:21 +0.92 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Rb7 (54.635) 26

11/20 0:25 +0.85 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Rb3 Kg7 (85.520) 26

12/24 0:32 +0.78 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Rb3 Kf7 (159.385) 26

13/25 0:39 +0.95 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Ke2 Kf7 17.Kd3 Ke6 (326.856) 26

14/26 0:41 +1.03 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Rb7 d4 17.Ke2 f5 (553.912) 26

15/27 0:43 +1.12 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 Kf7 14.Rxa5 Ke6 15.Rb5 Bd6
16.Ke2 f5 17.Rb6 Ke5 (904.747) 26

16/29 0:47 +1.15 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 Kf7 14.Rxa5 Ke6 15.Ra7 h5
16.Rb7 Bd6 17.Ke2 f5 18.Kd3 (1.561.086) 32

17/32 1:21 +1.28 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 Kf7 14.Rxa5 Ke6 15.Rb5 Bd6
16.Ke2 f5 17.Rb6 Ke5 18.f4+ Ke6
19.Ke3 (4.834.095) 59

18/34 1:59 +1.28 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 Kf7 14.Rxa5 Ke6 15.Rb5 f5
16.Ke2 h5 17.g3 Ke5 18.Kd3 (8.626.823) 71

19/35 2:58 +1.32 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 Kf7 14.Rxa5 Ke6 15.Ke2 f5
16.Ke3 (16.313.139) 91 TB:3

20/38 4:16 +1.25 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 Kf7 14.Rxa5 Ke6 15.Ke2 f5
16.Rb5 Ke5 17.Kd3 Bd6 18.Rb7 Bc5
19.f3 h5 20.Rb5 Bd6 (27.915.988) 108 TB:12

21/39 7:35 +1.41 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Bf8 12.Rb8 b4
13.Ra8 b3 14.Rxa5 b2 15.Rb5 Ba3
16.Rb7 (58.655.949) 128 TB:32

22/42 11:17 +1.32 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Kf7 12.Rb8 Ke6
13.Rxb5 Kd6 14.Rb7 h5 15.Ke2 Kc5
16.Rc7+ Kd4 17.Rf7 a4 18.Rxf6 Kc4
19.Rc6+ Kb3 (101.020.522) 149 TB:117

23/42 21:12 +1.26 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Kf7 12.Rb8 Ke6
13.Rxb5 Kd6 14.Rb7 h5 15.Rh7 Kc5
16.Rxh5 a4 17.Rh8 a3 18.Ra8 Kb5
19.h4 Ba5 20.Rb8+ Kc4 21.Rc8+

(199.935.715) 157 TB:290

24/46 55:48 +1.25 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Kf7 12.Rb8 Ke6
13.Rxb5 Kd6 14.Rb7 h5 15.Rh7 Kc5
16.Rxh5 a4 17.Rh7 a3 18.Rc7+ Kb5

(517.896.523) 154
TB:1.805

25/49 146:57 +1.02 10.Kf1 a5 11.Rc8+ Kf7 12.Rb8 Ke6
13.Rxb5 Kd6 14.Ke2 Kc6 15.Rb8 Bc5
16.g4 a4 17.f3 Bd6 (1.447.688.369) 164
TB:8.979

25/49 156:54 +1.03 10.Rc6 (1.547.879.171) 164 TB:9.578

25/50 173:29 +1.26 10.Rc6 a5 11.Rb6 d4 12.Rxb5 d3
13.Kf1 Kf7 14.h4 Kg7 15.Rd5 d2
16.Ke2 (1.722.043.603) 165 TB:10.995

26/53 339:23 +1.27 10.Rc6 a5 11.Rb6 Kf7 12.Kf1 Ke7
13.h4 Kd7 14.h5 Kc7 (3.358.079.057) 164
TB:27.735

best move: Rc2-c6 time: 446:06.171 min n/s: 158.322 nodes:

4.237.624.399 TB: 27.735

I also tried a shoot-out with this variation and now White was able to win it:

[Event "Shoot-out 3.b4 variation"]
[Site "Groningen"]
[Date "2007.08.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "HIARCS 11.2 [7,13,7]"]
[Black "HIARCS 11.2 [7,13,7]"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5k1r/r3b2p/p3Qp2/qp1p4/8/2R5/1PP2PPP/4R1K1 w - -"]

1. Rc8+ Kg7 2. Qg4+ Kf7 3. b4 Qxb4 4. Qxb4 Bxb4 5. Rxh8 Kg6
6. Rg8+ Kf7 7. Ree8 Rc7 8. Rc8 Rxc2 9. Rxc2 Kxg8 10. Rc6 a5
11. Rb6 Kf7 12. Kf1 Ke7 13. Ke2 Kd7 14. Kd3 Be1 15. Rxb5
Kc6 16. Rb2 Bb4 17. g4 Bc5 18. f4 a4 19. h4 a3 20. Rc2 Kb5
21. g5 fxg5 22. hxg5 Bd6 23. f5 Ka4 24. Re2 Kb3 25. g6 hxg6
26. fxg6 Bf8 27. Re8 Bg7 28. Rb8+ 1-0

[d]1R6/6b1/6P1/3p4/8/pk1K4/8/8 b - -


1R6/6b1/6P1/3p4/8/pk1K4/8/8 b - -

Engine: HIARCS 11.2 [7,13,7] (256 MB)
by Mark John Uniacke

24/46 3:16 -11.63 28...Ka2 29.Kc2 d4 30.Kd3 Bf6 31.Rb7 Ka1
32.Rf7 Be5 33.Ke4 Bh8 34.Rh7 Bf6
35.Kf5 Bd8 36.g7 (82.005.728) 417
TB:409.834

best move: Kb3-a2 time: 4:49.532 min n/s: 423.324 nodes: 122.569.239 TB: 409.834
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