Nice position

[Uri Blass]

depth can be dependent only on the size of hash and the use of tablebases.

I gave movei 512 mbytes hash in my analysis.

Uri

[Spock]

OK, I was giving it 128MB or 256MB. Should have given more for this long analysis.

[Kaj Soderberg]

[quote="Eelco de Groot"]I'm playing around a bit with my new ChessTiger and even trying to learn her some new tricks. Although officially there are no settings possible for Tiger other than the Normal, Gambit, Gambit Aggressive and Gambit Suicidal settings and of course the Anti-Human option, I found that I could also vary the the SelSafety settings a bit in CT.ini. I also tried MoreSel and NSEW but could not find any differences in moves or nodecounts so far. But SelSafety makes a bit of a difference in moves. I have to shut down Chess Tiger and then make some changes in CT.ini or the changes will be reversed in CT.ini when Chess Tiger closes down. But at the moment the changes seem permanent. The changes probably make ChessTiger not any stronger but it is nice to have something slightly different! Default is SelSafety=6, SelSafety=5 is a possibility but at the moment I have the parameter at SelSafety=7 in Gambit Tiger 2007.1.

Hi Eelco,

I would like Chess Tiger to slow down a bit; its reduction stuff seems a bit overdone to me as the beast sometimes overlooks serious alternatives. Would some range of SelSafety maybe provide in this slowing down somewhat and seeing some more in return, in your opinion?
I will of course try it out anyway soon, but i'm curious if you have found a "feasible range" for SelSafety to experiment with.

Best regards,

Kaj

[Uri Blass]

OK, I was giving it 128MB or 256MB. Should have given more for this long analysis.

I do not claim that more hash always help to find the solution faster
but only that it can explain different result.

It may be luck and I think that in part of the cases more hash may cause the program to find the solution slower but I guess that in average more hash should help to find the solution faster.


Uri

[Oscar L]

Are you a Chess tiger 2007.2 beta tester? Or are you doing this tests on your own.

Another questions, is only useful for gambit or for default setting too. Is SelSafety related with king safety'


Sorry for so many questions

[Marc MP]

Hi Eelco,

You should ask a copy of Chess Tiger 2007 (compared to 2007.1) too. It is a bit better for test positions in my opinion. Here on the endgame position it is quite fast at finding Bh8 but the score doesn't go as high. Interesting. Athlon 1.4, 96M hash and 3-4 mens:

Gambit Tiger 2007 - SelSafety=5

Code: Select all

00:00:10.1	1,49	21	Ba3 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Kc4 Kb7 Kd5 e4 Bc5 Kc7 h6 Kd7 Ke5 Kc6 Bd4 Bg6 h3 Bh7 h4 
00:00:12.9	1,55	21	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bf5 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 Kd6 h6 Kd5 Kg7 e5 h7 e4 h4 
00:00:14.3	1,60	22	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bh7 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 e5 Kxe5 Ke7 h4 Kf7 Bf6 Kg8 h6 Bg6 
00:00:17.6	1,60	23	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bh7 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 e5 Kxe5 Ke7 h4 Kf7 Bf6 Kg8 Kd5 Kf7 
00:00:24.2	1,60	24	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bb1 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 Ke8 Kxe6 Kf8 Bd4 Bh7 h4 Kg8 Ke5 
00:00:33.3	1,63	25	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bb1 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 e5 Kxe5 Ke7 h4 Kf7 Kf4 Bc2 Kg5 Kg8 
00:00:46.1	1,65	26	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bb1 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 e5 Kxe5 Ke7 h4 Kf7 Kf4 Bc2 Kg5 
00:01:11.8	1,68	27	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bf5 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kc5 h6 Kc4 Kf6 Kd3 Kg7 e5 Kf6 Ke4 Kf7 Bh7 
00:02:02.2	1,68	28	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Bxe5 Kb7 Kd4 Kc6 Ke3 Kd5 Kf4 Ke6 h4 Ke7 Kg5 Kf7 h6 
00:03:37.7	2,03	29	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Kc4 Kb7 Kd5 e4 Bd4 Kc7 Ke6 Kc6 Bf2 Kc7 h6 Kd8 Kf6 Ke8
00:04:20.9	2,03	30	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Kc4 Kb7 Kd5 e4 Bd4 Kc7 Ke6 Kc6 Bf2 Kc7 h6 Kd8 Kf6 Ke8 
00:06:58.2	2,58	31	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Kc4 Kb7 Kd5 Kc7 Kxe5 Kc6 h6 Bc2 Kf6 Bd3 Kg7 Bf1 h7 Bh3 
00:07:25.2	2,58	32	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Kc4 Kb7 Kd5 Kc7 Kxe5 Kc6 h6 Bc2 Kf6 Bd3 Kg7 Bf1 h7
00:09:56.5	2,76	33	Bh8 Kb7 Kb2 Bd1 h6 Bh5 Kc3 e5 Bxe5 Bg6 Kd4 Kc6 Bf4 Kd7 Ke5 Ke7 d4 Kf7 d5 Bh5 d6 
00:14:11.9	2,81	34	Bh8 Kb7 Kb2 Bd1 h6 Bh5 Kc3 e5 Bxe5 Bg6 Kd4 Kc6 Bf4 Kd7 Ke5 Ke7 d4 Kf7 d5 Bh5 d6 

00:25:02.7	2,93	35	1128119838    Bh8 Kb7 Kb2 Bd1 h6 Bh5 Kc3 e5 Bxe5 Bg6 Kc4 Kc6 Bf4 Kd7 d4 Ke8 d5 Kf7 Kc5 Be4 d6 Ke6 h4 Kd7 Kd4 Bc2 Ke5 Ke8 h5 

Gambit Tiger 2007 - SelSafety=6 (Default)

Code: Select all

00:00:14.5	1,43	21	11007316	d4 Kb7 Ka2 Kc6 Ka3 Kd5 h6 Bh7 Kb4 Ke4 Kc5 Kf5 Kd6 Bg8 h4 Kg4 Ke5 Kxh4
00:00:15.6	1,55	21	11824088	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bf5 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 Kd6 h6 Kd5 Kg7 e5 h7 e4 
...
00:33:59.0	2,54	33	1567295277	Bh8 Kb7 Kb2 Bd1 h6 Bh5 Kc3 e5 Bxe5 Bg6 Kd4 Kc6 Bf4 Kd7 Ke5 Ke7 d4 Ke8 d5 Kf7 d6 Bc2 

Gambit Tiger 2007 - SelSafety=7

Code: Select all

00:00:16.2	1,31	22	12099024	Ba3 Bxd3 Kb2 Bh7 Kc3 e5 Bf8 Kb7 Bg7 Kc6 Bxe5 Kd5 Bg7 Ke6 h4 Kf5 Kd4
00:00:17.1	1,50	22	12713568	Bh8 Bxd3 Kb2 Kb7 Kc3 Bf5 Kd4 Kc6 Ke5 Kd7 Kf6 Kd6 h6 Kd5 h4 Ke4 Kg7
...
00:19:54.1	2,80	34	946727907	Bh8 Kb7 Kb2 Bd1 h6 Bh5 Kc3 e5 Bxe5 Bg6 Kd4 Kc6 Bf4 Kd7 Ke5 Ke7 d4 Kf7 d5 Bh5 d6 Bg4 h4 Bd7 h5 

[Ryan Benitez]

FEN: k7/8/4p3/7P/8/3P4/1Bb4P/K7 w - - 0 1

Fruit 2.3.3fx Test Beta:
1 00:00 24 0 +0.87 d3d4
2 00:00 50 0 +0.73 d3d4 Ka8b7
2 00:00 129 0 +0.85 h5h6 Bc2xd3 Bb2d4
3 00:00 220 0 +0.68 h5h6 Bc2xd3 Bb2d4 Ka8b7
3 00:00 309 0 +0.78 d3d4 Ka8b7 h5h6 Kb7c6
3 00:00 399 0 +0.79 Bb2e5 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2
4 00:00 642 0 +0.76 Bb2e5 Bc2xd3 h5h6 Ka8b7 Ka1b2
4 00:00 847 0 +0.81 d3d4 Ka8b7 h5h6 Kb7c6 Ka1a2
5 00:00 1.421 0 +0.78 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2
6 00:00 2.641 0 +0.81 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2d3
7 00:00 4.117 0 +0.84 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2d3 h5h6 Kc6d5
8 00:00 7.919 0 +0.88 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Bc1f4 Kc6d5
9 00:00 15.713 0 +0.95 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 h5h6 Kc6d6 Bc1f4+ Kd6e7 Kb2c3
10 00:00 24.384 0 +1.01 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 h5h6 Kc6d6 Bc1f4+ Kd6e7 Kb2c3 Ke7f6
11 00:00 38.676 0 +1.01 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 h5h6 Kc6d6 Bc1f4+ Kd6e7 Bf4g5+ Ke7f7 Kb2c3 Kf7g6
12 00:00 55.293 0 +1.01 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 h5h6 Kc6d5 Kb2c3 e6e5 Bc1e3 e5xd4+ Be3xd4 Be4f5 h2h4
13 00:00 86.895 0 +1.02 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 h5h6 Kc6d6 Bc1f4+ Kd6e7 Kb2c3 Ke7f7 h2h4 Kf7g6 Kc3c4
14 00:00 136.891 0 +1.06 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 h5h6 Kc6d6 Bc1f4+ Kd6e7 Kb2c3 Ke7f7 Kc3d2 Kf7g6 Kd2e3 Be4d5
15 00:00 222.649 0 +1.03 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c7 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Bc1f4+ Kc7d8 h5h6 Kd8e7 Kb2c3 Ke7f7 Kc3d2 Kf7g6 Kd2e3 Be4d5 Ke3d3
16 00:00 366.664 0 +1.03 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c7 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Bc1f4+ Kc7d8 Kb2c3 Kd8e7 Kc3d2 Ke7f6 Kd2e3 Be4d5 h2h3 Kf6g7 Ke3d3
17 00:00 546.188 0 +1.03 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c1 Kb7c7 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Kb2c3 Kc7d7 Kc3d2 Kd7e7 Kd2e3 Be4f5 h2h4 Ke7f7 Bc1a3 Kf7g7 Ba3d6
18 00:01 1.573.486 910.000 +1.06 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2a3 Bc2f5 Ka1b2 Kb7c6 Kb2c3 Kc6d5 h5h6 Bf5e4 Ba3c1 Be4f5 Bc1f4 Kd5e4 Bf4e5 Ke4d5 Kc3d2 Bf5e4 Kd2e3
19 00:03 3.528.682 996.667 +1.02 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2f5 Kb2b3 Kc6d6 Kb3c4 Bf5e4 Bc3b4+ Kd6d7 h5h6 Kd7e8 h2h4 Ke8f7 h4h5 Kf7f6 Bb4d2 Kf6f7 Bd2f4
20 00:04 4.393.233 1.022.500 +1.01 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2f5 Kb2b3 Bf5e4 h5h6 Kc6d5 Bc3b2 Kd5c6 Kb3c4 Kc6d7 Bb2c1 Kd7e7 Bc1f4 Ke7f7 Kc4c5 Kf7g6 h2h4
21 00:07 7.545.481 1.054.286 +0.90 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Kb2b3 Kc6d7 Bc3d2 Kd7e8 Kb3c4 Ke8f7 h2h3 Be4d5+ Kc4c5 Kf7g7 Kc5d6 Kg7h7 Kd6e5 Bd5c4 Bd2b4 Bc4d5
22 00:09 9.550.940 1.062.500 +0.90 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Kb2b3 Kc6d7 Kb3b4 Kd7e7 Kb4c5 Be4d5 Bc3b4 Ke7f6 Bb4d2 Kf6g7 Kc5d6 Kg7h7 Kd6e5 Bd5c4 h2h3 Bc4d5
23 00:12 13.481.476 1.084.167 +0.89 d3d4 Ka8b7 Bb2c3 Kb7c6 Ka1b2 Bc2e4 Kb2b3 Kc6d7 Kb3b4 Kd7e7 Kb4c5 Be4d5 Bc3b4 Ke7f6 Bb4d2 Kf6g7 Kc5d6 Kg7h7 Kd6e5 Kh7h8 Bd2f4 Kh8h7 h5h6 Bd5c4
23 00:22 24.106.504 1.091.818 +1.16 Bb2c1 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 e6e5 Kb2c3 Bd3e4 Kc3c4 Ka8b7 Bc1b2 Be4f5 Bb2xe5 Kb7c6 Kc4d4 Kc6d7 Kd4d5 Kd7e7 Be5d4 Ke7f7 Kd5e5 Bf5d3 Ke5f4 Kf7e7 h5h6 Ke7e6 h2h4
24 00:27 29.440.960 1.094.080 +1.03 Bb2c1 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 e6e5 Kb2c3 Bd3e4 Kc3c4 Ka8b7 Bc1b2 Kb7c7 Bb2xe5+ Kc7d7 Kc4d4 Be4c2 Kd4c3 Bc2f5 Be5d4 Kd7e6 Kc3d2 Ke6f7 Kd2e3 Bf5g4 h5h6 Kf7g6 Ke3f4 Bg4d7 Bd4g7
25 00:33 37.118.259 1.103.509 +0.95 Bb2c1 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 e6e5 Kb2c3 Bd3e4 Kc3c4 Ka8b7 Bc1b2 Kb7c7 Bb2xe5+ Kc7d7 Kc4d4 Be4c2 Kd4c3 Bc2f5 Kc3b4 Kd7e6 Be5b2 Bf5e4 Bb2d4 Ke6f5 Bd4e3 Kf5f6 Kb4c3 Kf6g7 Kc3c4
25 00:57 61.330.583 1.075.029 +1.03 Bb2a3 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Bd3e4 Kb2c3 e6e5 Ba3d6 Ka8b7 Bd6xe5 Kb7c6 Kc3d4 Be4c2 Be5h8 Kc6d6 Kd4c3 Bc2f5 Kc3d2 Kd6e6 Bh8d4 Ke6f7 Kd2e3 Bf5g4 h5h6 Kf7g6 Ke3f4 Bg4d7 Bd4g7
26 01:00 65.411.899 1.077.110 +0.95 Bb2a3 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Bd3e4 Kb2c3 e6e5 Ba3d6 Ka8b7 Bd6xe5 Kb7c6 Kc3d4 Be4c2 Be5h8 Kc6d6 Kd4c3 Bc2f5 Kc3b4 Kd6e6 Bh8b2 Bf5e4 Bb2d4 Ke6f5 Bd4e3 Kf5f6 Kb4c3 Kf6g7 Kc3c4
27 01:29 96.998.764 1.088.497 +0.95 Bb2a3 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Bd3e4 Kb2c3 e6e5 Ba3d6 Ka8b7 Bd6xe5 Kb7c6 Kc3d4 Be4c2 Be5h8 Kc6d6 Kd4c3 Bc2f5 Kc3b4 Kd6e6 Bh8b2 Bf5e4 Kb4c3 Be4f5 Kc3d2 Ke6f7 h2h4 Bf5g4 h5h6 Kf7g6 Bb2g7
27 01:50 120.496.581 1.092.510 +1.11 Bb2g7 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 e6e5 Kb2c3 Bd3h7 Kc3c4 e5e4 h5h6 Ka8b7 Kc4d5 e4e3 Bg7c3 Kb7a6 Kd5d4 e3e2 Kd4e3 Ka6b5 Ke3xe2 Kb5c4 Bc3d2 Kc4d4 Ke2f3 Kd4e5 h2h4 Ke5f5 Bd2f4 Bh7g8 Kf3e3 Kf5g4 Bf4g5
28 02:14 144.939.198 1.080.049 +1.21 Bb2g7 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Ka8b7 Kb2c3 Bd3f5 Kc3d4 Kb7c6 Kd4e5 Kc6d7 Ke5f6 Kd7e8 h5h6 Bf5d3 Kf6xe6 Bd3c4+ Ke6f6 Bc4d3 h2h4 Bd3e4 Kf6e6 Be4d3 Bg7e5 Ke8f8 Ke6d5 Kf8f7 h4h5 Bd3c2 Kd5c5 Bc2e4
29 02:26 156.325.914 1.072.529 +1.21 Bb2g7 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Ka8b7 Kb2c3 Bd3f5 Kc3d4 Kb7c6 Kd4e5 Kc6d7 Ke5f6 Kd7e8 h5h6 Bf5d3 Kf6xe6 Bd3c4+ Ke6f6 Bc4d3 h2h4 Bd3e4 Kf6e6 Be4d3 h4h5 Bd3c4+ Ke6d6 Bc4d3 Bg7e5 Ke8f7 Kd6d5 Bd3c2 Kd5c5 Bc2e4
30 02:59 194.600.641 1.084.352 +1.15 Bb2g7 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Ka8b7 Kb2c3 Bd3f5 Kc3d4 Kb7c6 Kd4e5 Kc6d7 Ke5f6 Kd7e8 h5h6 Bf5d3 Kf6xe6 Bd3c4+ Ke6f6 Bc4d3 h2h3 Bd3h7 Kf6e6 Bh7g8+ Ke6f5 Ke8f7 Bg7d4 Bg8h7+ Kf5g5 Bh7c2 Bd4c5 Kf7e6 Kg5f4 Ke6d5 Bc5b4 Bc2d3
31 04:21 291.645.311 1.116.006 +0.98 Bb2g7 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Ka8b7 Kb2c3 Bd3f5 Kc3d4 Kb7c6 Kd4e5 Kc6d7 Ke5f6 Kd7e8 h5h6 Bf5d3 Kf6xe6 Bd3c4+ Ke6f6 Bc4d3 h2h3 Bd3h7 Kf6e6 Bh7g8+ Ke6f5 Ke8f7 Kf5g5 Bg8h7 h3h4 Bh7d3 Kg5f4 Bd3c2 Kf4e3 Kf7g6 Ke3d2 Bc2e4
31 08:53 578.758.504 1.084.621 +3.46 Bb2h8 Bc2xd3 Ka1b2 Ka8b7 Kb2c3 Bd3f5 Kc3d4 Kb7c6 Kd4e5 Bf5g4 h5h6 Bg4f5 Ke5f6 Kc6d5 Bh8g7 Kd5e4 Bg7f8 Ke4f3 Bf8d6 Kf3g4 Kf6g7 Bf5c2 h6h7 Bc2xh7 Kg7xh7 Kg4h5 Kh7g7 Kh5g5 Bd6e7+ Kg5g4 Kg7g6 Kg4h3 Be7d6 Kh3g4 Bd6e5

[tiger]

NSEW and MoreSel are obsolete settings. They are read and written from/to the CT.INI file but they are never used in CT2007/CT2007.1. You have correctly noticed that they do not affect the program's behaviour.

SelSafety controls switching from nullmove R=2 to R=3 (R is the reduction after a null move, in plies). With a higher value of SelSafety, switching to R=3 happens later, so the search is safer. With SelSafety=0, a null move reduction of 3 (or more!) is applied almost everywhere in the search, except in the endgame where it is applied when there are 2 plies left before the horizon.

Another parameter you can play with is "LargeurFen". It is the width of the default alpha-beta window, in centipawns. Minimum is 1, maximum is 30000. A smaller value could speed up the search somehow, at the expense of more search instabilities. A larger value will give less re-searches, so the search will be more stable, but it should also be slower. The default value, 90, has not been changed for 10 years, so who knows...


// Christophe

[Kaj Soderberg]

I am using SelSafety=12 right now and testing Chess Informant positions in analysis mode for 1 to 2 hours. I can see that the journey through the plies is slower than at default during the early plies, but the engine keeps up a nice branching factor during later plies. This would correspond with your information that more reductions are in place later when increasing SelSafety. Up till now i have not discovered significant advantages in this philosophy of mine of "travelling slower but seeing more of the landscape". I have seen though that evaluaton scores seem stabler through the plies with the setting, but i do not know if that means anything. Anyway, i still have the notion that CT moves a bit too fast with default settings, so i will go on with my quest, and i might try the other parameter you discussed if i am not satisfied.

Best regards,

Kaj

[Anabolic Karpov]

Uri,

When I looked at the length of that analysis I thought
+- (2.29) Depth: 28 00:19:27 690845kN
referred to 28 days, 19 hours and 27 m

Is movei downloadable?

AK