CCRL update (7th October 2007)

[Tony Thomas]

If I can just mention Bright 0.2b now has over 300 games at 40/40 and appears on the best versions list around 15th place. OK it is a private engine but I was personally interested in testing it (I have run a lot of games for it, and still have a few more coming, and of course there is Graham's gauntlet too)

Zappa Mexico x64 on 1 CPU is almost certainly the number 2 engine on a single CPU, behind Rybka. This could be short lived however - Hiarcs 12 may threaten when it is released by the end of the year (or thereabouts). Maybe Shredder 11 can give it a fright as well, although that will be a bigger leap

Did you not hear about the 100 point expected rating increase for Shredder. Consider that they are kidding and it is more like 51-100 point stronger, that's all it would take for Shredder to catch up with the Zapper.

[Spock]

Did you not hear about the 100 point expected rating increase for Shredder. Consider that they are kidding and it is more like 51-100 point stronger, that's all it would take for Shredder to catch up with the Zapper.

Actually I didn't hear about that

Then yes, it needs about 50 to draw level, and about 70 to give sufficient confidence level that it is indeed stronger, so entirely possible if those expectations are met

[GS]

Due to matters in CCC taking up most of my spare time this weekend, I've been unable to write up a detailed report. :(

However you can find the latest updated lists here:

40/40
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040.live/

40/4
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/404/

It seems the 40/12 list died out, because there were no more games
added since June?

Regards,
Guenther

[Spock]

It seems the 40/12 list died out, because there were no more games
added since June?

Regards,
Guenther

The major focus has always been 40/4 and 40/40. We are thinking about what to do with 40/12. Shaun could comment more

[Norm Pollock]

Hi Graham,

The 15th engine on the 40/40 Best Versions List is a private engine (Bright). Also number 32 (Chiron) is private. There is nothing wrong with being private, particularly if the author is thinking about going commercial.

However it does make me skeptical when after a long time period, the engine still does not go commercial. Shouldn't you have some sort of time limit on how long an engine can be high on the list and still be private?

It you don't have a time limit in this type of case, then the door is wide open for deception.

-Norm

[Spock]

After a long time period, chances are that that these will drop down the list anyway as a matter of course, as other engines overtake them. So I don't think it is a problem.

[Kirill Kryukov]

Hi Graham,

The 15th engine on the 40/40 Best Versions List is a private engine (Bright). Also number 32 (Chiron) is private. There is nothing wrong with being private, particularly if the author is thinking about going commercial.

However it does make me skeptical when after a long time period, the engine still does not go commercial. Shouldn't you have some sort of time limit on how long an engine can be high on the list and still be private?

It you don't have a time limit in this type of case, then the door is wide open for deception.

-Norm

Hi Norm.

We already don't allow private engines in "pure" lists. If I remember correctly, the argument was that private engines are in advantage compared to public engines, because public engine author can't use private engine for testing, while private engine author is free to use any public engines.

I and others feel that it's OK to list private engines in the "best versions list" though. Anyway, we already "un-highlight" them with black color, so you won't miss them. If they trouble you, feel free to make a custom comparison without them.

Best,
Kirill

[Norm Pollock]

Hi Graham,

The 15th engine on the 40/40 Best Versions List is a private engine (Bright). Also number 32 (Chiron) is private. There is nothing wrong with being private, particularly if the author is thinking about going commercial.

However it does make me skeptical when after a long time period, the engine still does not go commercial. Shouldn't you have some sort of time limit on how long an engine can be high on the list and still be private?

It you don't have a time limit in this type of case, then the door is wide open for deception.

-Norm

Hi Norm.

We already don't allow private engines in "pure" lists. If I remember correctly, the argument was that private engines are in advantage compared to public engines, because public engine author can't use private engine for testing, while private engine author is free to use any public engines.

I and others feel that it's OK to list private engines in the "best versions list" though. Anyway, we already "un-highlight" them with black color, so you won't miss them. If they trouble you, feel free to make a custom comparison without them.

Best,
Kirill

Hi Kiril,

My issue is not whether or not I like them. My issue is about possible deception. Sorry if I am too blunt, but my issue is about the possibility that a "clone-like" engine will some day pose as a "private" engine in order to prevent our sleuths from exposing it. They would avoid detection and yet get perverted satisfaction by seeing their "work" up there on your lists.

Best,

Norm

[Kirill Kryukov]

Hi Kiril,

My issue is not whether or not I like them. My issue is about possible deception. Sorry if I am too blunt, but my issue is about the possibility that a "clone-like" engine will some day pose as a "private" engine in order to prevent our sleuths from exposing it. They would avoid detection and yet get perverted satisfaction by seeing their "work" up there on your lists.

Best,

Norm

Yes, such deception is possible, in theory. If you worry about it then it would be best for you to not care about private engines at all.

In the "Custom Comparison" part of our web-site there is an option "Take only public releases (no private engines)". Please try to use it. It was made for cases like this when someone does not want to see private engines. I hope it helps.

Best,
Kirill

[Norm Pollock]

Hi Kiril,

In the "Custom Comparison" for "only public releases", it appears that all that is different is that the private engines are not listed. It does not appear that there was a re-evaluation of Elos and rankings based upon a new database that removed the private engines from the original database. So therefore even though the private engines are not listed, their presence is still there, embedded in the Elo ratings and the rankings.

Best,
Norm