Poll: Non-author operators in the CCT

[Christopher Conkie]

I was just saying that by allowing anonymous operators to enter tournaments using the name of a known engine we are increasing the chances of cheating.

What about non author operators?

I could operate Massaka for Victorka......

Of course the chances of it happening are lot less when it is not an online tournament. When are you planning to release Pisska? Cant waitka.

No....Plonka is next. No idea who it's named after.

And this is a stupid poll......

Chriska

[Tony Thomas]

You operated Thinker last year, I didnt see you complaining. Shoot, I would run and get a Quad if Lance were to offer me a chance to operate Thinker.

[CRoberson]

Hi Graham and Swami,

In point 1:
I said "... is the biggest issue ..."

For point 2:
In the last paragraph, I stated "... I don't mind having operators but I
like a low percentage of nonauthors."

The feedback I've received from several authors is that they don't like
entering a tournament with very few authors and many operators.
Amongst the authors, the tournament can take the form of a
mini-conference which is quite enjoyable. CCT started out as an
authors tournament for that reason, but operators are welcome.

On the non-gregarious author issue, surely that is not an issue.
If I ask that author a question, he'll be able to answer it. Erdo has
operated Zap many times, he does the job and is conversant. If
an operator meets point 1 but not point 2 that is ok, but I wouldn't
want a large percentage of the programs operated that way.

It is a trade off. We want many authors but we want many original
engines too.

[Christopher Conkie]

You operated Thinker last year, I didnt see you complaining. Shoot, I would run and get a Quad if Lance were to offer me a chance to operate Thinker.

My motto is try everything once except death.

Last year Lance needed an operator so I offered. For me it was an experience and at the same time helped him out.

To be fair I had alot of help from those more familiar with what was required, who both helped with the setup and any questions I had.

I had alot of fun which is what its all about for me. I would help him again if he wanted but I would not make a habit of it. I like watching all the games you see. Operating somewhat deprives you of that.

My understanding is that CCT is a programmers tournament. If programmers don't show up you have a problem.

If it does not matter if the programmer is there or not then we will enter Massaka.



Chriska

(It's all coming together quite nicely btw.......)

[jdart]

I'm fine with a non-author operator in cases the author can't participate.

It's always been allowed, I think.

But I think it's curious that you'd pass up a tournament that (IMHO) offers a lot of entertainment, plus a good testing and learning opportunity.

--Jon

[playwaycool]

Hey guys,


I am the one offered to Tord to play Glaurung for him. My intentions is to play the tournament because it seems a fun experience as Christopher Conkie mentioned



I have played CCT once before for Gandalf author and had no problems but fun and great games played by gandalf! and abide by tournament policies.



I DO not have intentions to play with clone versions/engines, I am not this kind of person. I am into OTB chess and online chess, I am currently a member on World Chess Live, ICC, Infinia chess, FICS, playchess and including corresponding chess sites and I have interest for computer chess community, I have built friendship among those communities/servers online and offline and I guess playwaycool does mean i try to keep it cool for most matters and do not abuse any system.



I do change my computers regularly but it's my first Quad computer to own recently so I figured I can test it out with popular top programs out there in CCT10 (I forgot that I have to ask author permission, I haven't played CCT in about 5-6 years).



It's true I may not have knowledge about chess programming or programming as whole but I have played under (C) accounts on different chess servers using chess partner interface and winboard (not so much for winboard) over on ICC for instance and Using chessbase GUI to play over playchess server.



My computer setup is: Intel Quads Q6600 Overclocked to 3.3 GHZ, 8 GB RAM, 500 Hard drive on Vista 64 (my real challenge is chess partner doesn't seem to work under 64 windows, I may need help to get Glaurung online if it's approved for me to use it for CCT on ICC). It seems decent to try this comp on multi processor program and see how well the program would perform. Additional I offer to pay entry fee and join in behave of Tord with his permission and it is good testing for glaurung in the CCT event)


Lastly, if you guys do want to see operaters join, no problem. I can pass and just watch the tournament games. Thanks for opinions and good luck for everyone who is in the tournament and happy new year to all!

[Tord Romstad]

Hello Charles,

Thanks to you and everybody else for your opinions. It looks like the majority are not opposed to non-author operators, so I'll allow Sherif to operate my program.

Hi Tord,

IMHO there are two issues with havnig authors instead of operators.
I am not opposed to operators as long as the issues are addressed.

1) Some operators are poorly trained on setting up an engine on
ICC and geting its variables correct as well as setting up kibitzing
and so forth. This is the biggest issue and tends to slow down
online tournaments while the rest of us hold the operators hand.

I don't really understand what this issue has to do with authors instead of operators. Why is the author less likely to have problems setting everything up correctly?

Tord

[Tord Romstad]

First, I think your poll is misdirected. The voters should be the participants of the tournament.

I am not sure. The tournament is not just for the participants, but also for the spectators, isn't it? Besides, it's of course not technically possible to exclude non-participants from the poll.

Second, I don't know why you'd put this up for a vote, when the rules clearly allow for your program to enter with an operator.

The rules are not the only thing that matters. I don't want to do something that annoys the participants or spectators, even if it is perfectly acceptable according to the rules.

If we are only talking about rules, it probably wouldn't even be necessary to ask for my permission to enter Glaurung in the tournament. Glaurung's license explicitly grants everyone the right to do basically anything they want with it, so it isn't really possible for me to downright refuse someone to enter Glaurung in a tournament. Sharif was just polite enough to ask and accept my opinion, and after seeing the results of this poll, I am happy to let him play.

Third, if you don't care about the tournament, then why make this silly post and poll?

Because I care about those who do care about the tournament, many of whom are friends of mine.


Tord

[Tord Romstad]

But I think it's curious that you'd pass up a tournament that (IMHO) offers a lot of entertainment, plus a good testing and learning opportunity.

It's a question of priorities, as so often in life. I have very limited time for computer chess, and I want to spend this time on over the board tournaments rather than online tournaments. I find playing for hours on a chess server to be rather dull, even in the middle of winter. Playing on a real chess board and being able to go out for a beer with the other programmers afterwards is so much more attractive.

For online computer chess, I much prefer the live broadcasts of Olivier and others (although I unfortunately haven't had time to log on there recently), where the noise level is smaller, and where it is possible to come and go when I want rather than having to stay connected continuously for several hours per day.

Tord

[bob]

I have no intention of participating in the CCT10 (life is too short for on-line computer chess tournaments, IMHO), but I have been contacted by a user who wants to participate with my program, and asks for my permission. I personally don't care whether my program plays in the tournament, and the only potential reason for me to decline the request is if a lot of participants and spectators are annoyed by programs with non-author operators.

Therefore, I've created this poll. If the majority votes against non-author operators, I'll advice the user who contacted me not to use my program in the CCT.

Tord

For internet events, I believe participation is more important than who operates. It is nice to have authors present since sometimes the discussions are interesting, but I would personally rather have a program operated by a third party when opposed to not having the program at all. Hopefully the author would at least make sure the "strongest version" participates. And clearly just one version of any program can participate..