What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

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swami
Posts: 6663
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by swami »

[d]1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

This is the position taken from my game against Hamsters...

some engines prefer hxg6 over fxg6 with significant score while others prefer fxg6 with significant score...

I'd be curious to know which one is the best move,this position require deep understanding and good positional chess knowledge.

Happy New Year and regards.
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utzinger

Re: What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by utzinger »

swami wrote:[d]1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

This is the position taken from my game against Hamsters...

some engines prefer hxg6 over fxg6 with significant score while others prefer fxg6 with significant score...

I'd be curious to know which one is the best move,this position require deep understanding and good positional chess knowledge.

Happy New Year and regards.
I don't think that this position requires deep understanding and good
positional chess knowledge. It is merely a matter of diminishing white's
tactical possibilities and for this reason, hxg6 is the stronger move.
Kurt


[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.01.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - -"]

1... hxg6 2. Be4 Qa7+ 3. Kh1 Qd4 4. Rce1 Rf2 5. Bxg6 fxg6
6. Qxg6+ Kh8 7. Qh6+ Kg8 8. Qg6+ Kh8 9. Qh6+ Kg8 10. Qg6+
Kh8 11. Qh6+ Kg8 12. Qg6+ *
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swami
Posts: 6663
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

Re: What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by swami »

while I agree that hxg6 is the best move for this certain position,it seems most of the engines are just floating around in their eval, once they prefer hg6 a moment later they switch over to fg6 with significant score etc

and some of the engines are just unsure which to choose after depth 15.
Spieler - Hamsters 0.6, Blitz:5'
1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Spike 1.2 Turin:

1. ³ (-0.70): 29...f7xg6 30.Qh6-h3 a5-a4 31.Qh3-e6+ Qe7xe6 32.d5xe6 Nb5-c7 33.Rc1-d1 a4-a3 34.Rd1xd6 Rb2-b1 35.e6-e7 a3-a2 36.Rd6-d8+ Kg8-g7 37.Rd8xb8 Rb1xf1+ 38.Bg2xf1 a2-a1Q 39.e7-e8N+ Nc7xe8 40.Rb8xe8
2. ³ (-0.49): 29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-a1 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1 Rb2-f2 32.Rf1xf2 Qa7xf2 33.Ra1-f1 Qf2-a7 34.h2-h4 Nb5-c3 35.Kh1-h2 Qa7-c5 36.h4-h5

(, 01.01.2008)



Spieler - Hamsters 0.6, Blitz:5'
1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Glaurung 1.2:

1. = (-0.07): 29...f7xg6 30.Rc1-a1 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1 a5-a4 32.Bg2-e4 Qa7-d4 33.Ra1-e1 Rb2-f2 34.Rf1xf2 Qd4xf2 35.Re1-b1 Qf2-e2 36.Qh6-h4 a4-a3
2. = (-0.15): 29...h7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rf1-f3 Rb2-b4 32.Rc1-f1 Rb4xe4 33.Rf3xf7 Qe7xf7 34.Rf1xf7 Kg8xf7 35.Qh6-h7+ Kf7-f6 36.Qh7xc7

(, 01.01.2008)

Spieler - Hamsters 0.6, Blitz:5'
1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Glaurung 1.2:

1. = (-0.09): 29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Rb2-b4 31.Rc4xb4 a5xb4 32.h2-h4 Nb5-c7 33.h4-h5 Qe7-f8 34.Qh6-g5 Qf8-d8 35.Qg5xd8+ Rb8xd8 36.h5xg6 f7xg6 37.Bg2-e4
2. = (-0.07): 29...f7xg6 30.Rc1-a1 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1 a5-a4 32.Bg2-e4 Qa7-d4 33.Ra1-e1 Rb2-f2 34.Rf1xf2 Qd4xf2 35.Re1-b1 Qf2-e2 36.Qh6-h4 a4-a3

(, 01.01.2008)



Spieler - Hamsters 0.6, Blitz:5'
1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by bright-0.2c:

29...f7xg6
² (0.45) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
29...h7xg6
² (0.29) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6
= (-0.01) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6
= (-0.01) Depth: 2/10 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6 31.Rf1-f6
= (0.06) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1
= (-0.03) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Kg1-h1 Nb5-d4 31.Rc1-c3
= (-0.08) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6 31.Rf1-f6 a5-a4
= (-0.15) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6 31.Rf1-f6 a5-a4 32.Rc1-f1
= (0.09) Depth: 5/18 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Rb8-b3
= (-0.23) Depth: 5/18 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Rb8-b3 32.Be4-g2
= (-0.19) Depth: 6/18 00:00:00 23kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Rb8-b4 32.Rc4xb4 a5xb4
= (-0.13) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 52kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Qe7-c7 32.Rf1-f6 Rb8-b3 33.Be4-g2
= (-0.21) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 154kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Qe7-a7 32.Kg1-h1 Qa7-c7 33.Be4-d3 Rb8-b5
= (-0.21) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 298kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Rb2-b4 31.Rc4-c1 Nb5-d4 32.Rf1-f2 Nd4-f5 33.Qh6-d2 Qe7-a7 34.Qd2-g5
³ (-0.32) Depth: 10/27 00:00:02 1027kN
29...h7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qa7-d4 32.Rc1-e1 Rb2-f2 33.Rf1xf2 Qd4xf2 34.Qh6-e3 Qf2xe3 35.Re1xe3 Nb5-c7
= (-0.11) Depth: 11/38 00:00:06 3581kN
29...f7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rc1-a1 Rb2-b4 32.Be4-g2 Rb8-b5 33.Qh6-d2 Rb4-d4 34.Qd2-e2 a5-a4
= (-0.25) Depth: 11/42 00:00:11 6912kN
29...f7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rc1-a1 Rb2-b4 32.Be4xg6 h7xg6 33.Qh6xg6+ Qe7-g7 34.Qg6xd6 a5-a4 35.Ra1-e1 e5-e4 36.Re1-e3 a4-a3 37.Re3xa3 Qg7-d4+ 38.Kg1-h1 Nc7xd5
= (-0.24) Depth: 12/42 00:00:17 10509kN
29...f7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rf1-f3 Rb8-f8 32.Rf3xf8+ Qe7xf8 33.Qh6-h3 a5-a4 34.Rc1-f1 Qf8-e7 35.Qh3-d7 Qe7xd7 36.c6xd7 Rb2-b8
= (-0.16) Depth: 13/42 00:00:35 21559kN

(, 01.01.2008)

Spieler - Hamsters 0.6, Blitz:5'
1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by bright-0.2c:

29...f7xg6
² (0.45) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
29...h7xg6
² (0.29) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6
= (-0.01) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6
= (-0.01) Depth: 2/10 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6 31.Rf1-f6
= (0.06) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1
= (-0.03) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Kg1-h1 Nb5-d4 31.Rc1-c3
= (-0.08) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6 31.Rf1-f6 a5-a4
= (-0.15) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00
29...Qe7-a7+ 30.Kg1-h1 h7xg6 31.Rf1-f6 a5-a4 32.Rc1-f1
= (0.09) Depth: 5/18 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Rb8-b3
= (-0.23) Depth: 5/18 00:00:00
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Rb8-b3 32.Be4-g2
= (-0.19) Depth: 6/18 00:00:00 23kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Rb8-b4 32.Rc4xb4 a5xb4
= (-0.13) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 52kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Qe7-c7 32.Rf1-f6 Rb8-b3 33.Be4-g2
= (-0.21) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 154kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Nb5-d4 31.Bg2-e4 Qe7-a7 32.Kg1-h1 Qa7-c7 33.Be4-d3 Rb8-b5
= (-0.21) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 298kN
29...h7xg6 30.Rc1-c4 Rb2-b4 31.Rc4-c1 Nb5-d4 32.Rf1-f2 Nd4-f5 33.Qh6-d2 Qe7-a7 34.Qd2-g5
³ (-0.32) Depth: 10/27 00:00:02 1027kN
29...h7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Qe7-a7+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qa7-d4 32.Rc1-e1 Rb2-f2 33.Rf1xf2 Qd4xf2 34.Qh6-e3 Qf2xe3 35.Re1xe3 Nb5-c7
= (-0.11) Depth: 11/38 00:00:06 3581kN
29...f7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rc1-a1 Rb2-b4 32.Be4-g2 Rb8-b5 33.Qh6-d2 Rb4-d4 34.Qd2-e2 a5-a4
= (-0.25) Depth: 11/42 00:00:11 6912kN
29...f7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rc1-a1 Rb2-b4 32.Be4xg6 h7xg6 33.Qh6xg6+ Qe7-g7 34.Qg6xd6 a5-a4 35.Ra1-e1 e5-e4 36.Re1-e3 a4-a3 37.Re3xa3 Qg7-d4+ 38.Kg1-h1 Nc7xd5
= (-0.24) Depth: 12/42 00:00:17 10509kN
29...f7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-c7 31.Rf1-f3 Rb8-f8 32.Rf3xf8+ Qe7xf8 33.Qh6-h3 a5-a4 34.Rc1-f1 Qf8-e7 35.Qh3-d7 Qe7xd7 36.c6xd7 Rb2-b8
= (-0.16) Depth: 13/42 00:00:35 21559kN
29...f7xg6 30.Qh6-h3 Kg8-g7 31.Rc1-a1 Qe7-a7+ 32.Kg1-h1 a5-a4 33.Qh3-h4 a4-a3 34.Qh4-f6+ Kg7-g8 35.Qf6-e6+ Kg8-g7 36.Qe6-f6+
= (0.00) Depth: 14/51 00:02:04 72530kN
29...h7xg6 30.Bg2-e4 Nb5-d4 31.Rc1-a1 Qe7-a7 32.Kg1-h1 Nd4-c2 33.Be4xc2 Rb2xc2 34.Rf1-f6 Rc2-f2 35.Qh6-h4 Rf2xf6 36.Qh4xf6 Qa7-c5
= (-0.02) Depth: 14/51 00:03:20 114mN

(, 01.01.2008)
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YL84

Re: What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by YL84 »

Hi,
as a human I prefer hxg6 creating less weakness. Black
have also counterchances with their rook on the 2nd rank and the open
line a7-f2. Below is my engine analysis which seems to think the position is equal.
Yves

"depth 1 score -150 temps 2 nbnod 43 B_F :42 : h7g6"
"depth 2 score -170 temps 7 nbnod 284 B_F :15,52417469626 : f7f5 g6h7"
"depth 3 score -60 temps 15 nbnod 1415 B_F :10,4188759758308 : h7g6 c1c4 f7f5"
"depth 4 score -140 temps 36 nbnod 4422 B_F :7,40514142224311 : h7g6 g2e4 b8e8 h6e3"
"depth 5 score -50 temps 108 nbnod 15340 B_F :6,42138365116295 : h7g6 c1c4 e7a7 g1h1 f7f5"
"depth 6 score -120 temps 362 nbnod 53443 B_F :5,80087083179787 : h7g6 g2e4 b2b4 e4b1 e5e4 b1c2"
"depth 7 score -30 temps 1119 nbnod 172093 B_F :5,30756585867171 : h7g6 g1h1 b5d4 c6c7 b8c8 g2e4 f7f5"
"depth 8 score -70 temps 2203 nbnod 374360 B_F :4,6051165817238 : h7g6 g2e4 b2b4 e4g2 b8e8 g1h1 b5a7 h6d2"
"depth 9 score -60 temps 5391 nbnod 939793 B_F :4,35665792312861 : h7g6 c1c4 e5e4 c4a4 b8e8 g2e4 e7a7 g1h1 f7f5"
"depth 10 score -34 temps 19622 nbnod 3932905 B_F :4,4423451355128 : h7g6 g2e4 b2b4 e4g2 b4b2 g2h3 c8e8 h3g2 e8c8 g2e4"
"depth 11 score -34 temps 40529 nbnod 7739190 B_F :3,96485574865928 : h7g6 g2e4 b2b4 e4g2 b4b2 g2e4 b2a2 c1b1 e7a7 g1h1 a2f2"
"depth 12 score -34 temps 97835 nbnod 19000739 B_F :3,8693068977696 : h7g6 g2e4 b2b4 e4g2 b4b2 g2e4 b8e8 g1h1 b2a2 h1g1 b5d4 h3g2"
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Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by Terry McCracken »

swami wrote:[d]1r4k1/4qp1p/2Pp2PQ/pn1Pp3/8/6P1/1r4BP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1

This is the position taken from my game against Hamsters...

some engines prefer hxg6 over fxg6 with significant score while others prefer fxg6 with significant score...

I'd be curious to know which one is the best move,this position require deep understanding and good positional chess knowledge.

Happy New Year and regards.
I prefer fxg6 and so does Hiarcs.

Terry
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swami
Posts: 6663
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

Re: What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by swami »

Terry McCracken wrote:I prefer fxg6 and so does Hiarcs.
Terry
Well,Terry, may I ask what you plan to do with fxg6?why it is better choice etc?can you post the Hiarcs eval here,I'd be curious to know what it thinks the few moves ahead...
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Terry McCracken
Posts: 16465
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: What does your Engine say? (fxg6 or hxg6)

Post by Terry McCracken »

swami wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:I prefer fxg6 and so does Hiarcs.
Terry
Well,Terry, may I ask what you plan to do with fxg6?why it is better choice etc?can you post the Hiarcs eval here,I'd be curious to know what it thinks the few moves ahead...
They are nearly equel...I like open lines...but I prefer White in any case.

Hiarcs thinks hxg6 a tad weaker after a few moves.

I'll look at it later...
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