ethical dilemma

[Andrej Sidorov]

Of course, Zakharov may be lying in defence of Osipov.

Why would he do that?

[Albert Silver]

It is true that Osipov didn't originate the idea of commercializing it, he did however support it, and repeatedly asked Vas to accept. When someone asks to repeatedly commercialize something, I interpret that as someone who wants it to be commercialized.
Albert

Albert, your interpretation on that Osipov could be interested in going to comercial is good, but it is important to know who initiated the contact, because the words of Vas appeared that the contact was initiated by Osipov.

I don't actually know. My involvement came after, so I can only comment on what I do know.

I do know that while Convekta asked Vas whether he'd be ok with commercializing Strelka, Osipov also personally asked Vas more than once, insistently, to ok the proposal.

I never said that Osipov initiated the idea of commercializing Strelka, and I don't actually know, but I do know that he was all in favor of it once the idea was on the table, and supported it fervently.

He never ever denied the origin of Strelka mind you, quite the contrary, so you can imagine my rolling eyes at the 'debate' on this.

Albert

[GenoM]

He never ever denied the origin of Strelka mind you, quite the contrary, so you can imagine my rolling eyes at the 'debate' on this.

Albert

V. Rajlich never denied the origin of Rybka too, so what's the point here?
About commercial Strelka -- it's like "if this... if that..." If. Did Strelka went commercial? No, it didn't.
I think Osipov and Convekta ask Rajlich about permission not about of Strelka going commercial but about Strelka as engine part of commercial package of Rybka. That was really impudently, I should say Just immagine V. Rajlich state when he received the e-mails... what a crazy insolence
Cheers,
Geno

[GenoM]

If (hi all ) IF i was Osipov I would made Strelka commercial with open source That would be stylish

[Albert Silver]

He never ever denied the origin of Strelka mind you, quite the contrary, so you can imagine my rolling eyes at the 'debate' on this.

Albert

V. Rajlich never denied the origin of Rybka too, so what's the point here?

First of all, you repeat this constantly. Please show me where he told you the origin of Rybka.

As to the point, it is simple. You and others have constantly denied it, challenged it, and claimed slander when it was suggested.

You are correct that it was to be an additional engine in the Rybka PPC package. The idea was that this Rybka variant could be interesting for potential buyers. But yes, I don't know about you, but I'd have been pretty incensed at such a galling proposal.

Albert

[Terry McCracken]

Well we all know Vas isn't lying

You have two options:

(1) Believe Osipov who openly claimed he'd rewritten parts of Fruit and used constants from Rybka.

(2) Believe Rajlich who concealed his node count and never tried to explain why.

Concealing code, can you prove that was Vas's intention? You don't have a sound arguement.

I certainly won't believe thugs! One who has already threatened me on this board!

Vas is not guilty of wrong doing that is clear and this other character is!

Really tough choice...duh!

[Rolf]

I think you are being obtuse. It is true that Osipov didn't originate the idea of commercializing it, he did however support it, and repeatedly asked Vas to accept. When someone asks to repeatedly commercialize something, I interpret that as someone who wants it to be commercialized.

Knowing about possible legal problems with Strelka we asked Vasik for his opinion about this. The message was sent by Osipov first and then I duplicated Osipov's message as Vasik didn't receive it. The answer was no. So this quesion was not considered any more.

Who is lying? You, Zakharov or Rajlich?

Nobody!

Who is guilty of anything non-kosher? CONVEKTA & O.

Proof:

Zakharov, the head of the programmer team in CONVEKTA once had a problem, as he told a story, which is perhaps a fairy tale to hide the exact truth about O and the stolen code of RYBKA BETA. Vas wasnt ready, all after Zakharov, with an engine for mobile Rybka. So Zakharov looked around and sked for help, and help came faster than possible because O had the Rybka clone already ready. Is this believable? Of course not. Should Zakharov have accepted the O "own" program, of course not because it was Rybka code he had stolen. Ok, let's pretend Z. asked and O appeared with the ordered tool.

Could O have thought for a while that he could commercialize his stolen code? Yes, if Vas had given his ok for reasons beyond expected normality in terms of psychiatry. Of course we know that Vas didntz do such nonsense.

But that made O really angry because for what has he stolen that code if he now couldnt become famous?? And what should Zakharov think after Vas' veto??? Could he argue, well, pity, Mr. O, Vas forbid it therefore please burn your code and go take the train back to Nowhere? Nope.

They both had now the idea that O could become famous with going into public.

But to all such solutions Vas was not too positive and Vas decided to publish the stolen code as his own and O was never again to be seen and his real alter ego had certain depressions, Zakharov is awaiting possible court cases with the warning that programmers should better save and protect their code, both programmers, the original with his genuine code and the thief with his stolen code, because what a nightmare when the original owner follows the thief and goes public with this code which took the thief at least 6 months of hard work which could be almost called naked self chosen slavery...

What were your next questions?

[Rolf]

I have a nice anecdote for the case where the victim follows the thief, attacks him, gets into possession of the stolen purse and gives the thief a slight slap on his behind. You must have seen the thieves how they were trying to get away but of course the alleged victim was a high speed running athlete with the necessary power! I saw that on Candid Camera long time ago. Even those who dont like Vas too much for reasons unknown, must admit that the idea of the publicising of the stolen code as his own shows Vas in a bright light of smartness with good portions of irony. Here is a video about the possible O.

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid= ... 3940648650

[Rolf]

this is my final video from the match between the Rybkas and the Strelkas.

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid= ... &plindex=1

[frosch]

Mr. Hyatt,

you appear as an old fish, who partly lives in the past, glorifying the innocent early days of computer chess. your statements lack of arguments - you just repeat your totally unrealistic and wrong assumption, that a programmer has to solely contribute his work to a comunity to enrich science.

you moral "argumentation" collapses:

science loses its eligibility without a justification for it's aim. science needs a market and a business in the end. your students mostly visit the university to gain some knowledge, which they can use to make a living. some students stay at the university, to take your seat though..
do you tell your students not to produce commercial software? if you do, they laugh at you. you better be happy about all commercial programmers, because they pay taxes and finance your job!

you might discuss your precious ideas on the net in some public fora and behave like all is confidential information you secretely shared with a compagnion scientist, who suddenly steals your ideas, goes to industry and makes lots of money with your IP.

well, then you should understand vasiks concern, because in his case this is really true in the way that his compagnion is an anonymous theft, who even broke into his appartment.

btw: I think vasik didn't steal all your secrets, his rybka is still no match for the mighty crafty!