CCT 10:Round 1 Pairings up!

[swami]

another mate bug against Protej from Twisted...crashes and loses the game.

[pedrox]

Hello Uri,

The rules are clear.

The programs can continue a game 2 times even if they lose their Internet connection momentarily in the third when they lost the game, I see something normal, otherwise my program could lose the connection 500 times if I am losing.

And of the stability of the connection we can not talk, you may have a broadband connection that does not fail in 364 days and fail the 365, there is always a percentage of fault, as in tournaments human, I also see GM who sometimes are not presented in tournaments.

[playwaycool]

First of all. I did enjoy the games for the first day. It's really a fun experience to play in such a good tournament among different programs with different styles. Also Good job so far by Peter Skinner



Regarding The two wins for Glaurung over a disconnection. I am certainly not happy to win like that. Ktulu (the other program i am operating) had a winning ending against Arasan and I lost the game by disconnection and I moved on right away since that was the tournament policy for the tournament. If I had a problem with the tournament rules then I shouldn't even join or offer to operate for a program However since i joined that is an agrement that you will abide by tournament rules and the decision calls by the TD. So therefore if you don't like that 3 disconnection rule, why did you join? I understand it can become frustrating when you disconnect on a winning game that is a very understandable and I faced that today! I really would like to see glaurung play all 3 remaining games without winning by disconnections and same with Ktulu



Also another case was with Twisted this one was really sad, because it had two queens and still lost by disconnection. Regarding isp and hardware issues, I am under impression everyone who are in the tournament are prepared and such problems can appear in any given moment. ISP that works all the time may all of the sudden stop working for few hours (few hours of the tournament) Same goes with chess interface, People do not create these problems to delay the tournament. IT seems we are having a good crew that plays fair.


Sorry Uri, I don't mean this a personal or offensive to you. But i notice all or most of your posts on CCC forum are always on the denial/disagrement I would have hoped you can agree with few basis things or with few members in here Anyhow I apologize in advance to the moderaters if that is considered inappropriate post directing to a member



Good luck to everyone tomorrow, BTW uri. You are right about Junior had a winning advantage, However lkarus, Glaurung had the better position but overal it would have been draw. There should be very interesting games tomorrow

[hgm]

What happened to FIDE rules? I could not find anything there about disconnects ending a game!

[bob]

Is this a serious tournament?
How games can be finished with 0:0 result?


5 Naum, (5) 0:0 Symbolic, (20)
18 ZCT, (28) 0:0 Weid, (27)

If programs are not ready to play they should not play in the tournament and not get 0:0 result.

What does 0:0 result means? Does it mean a draw?

So why do you think it is strange that 5 and 18 games could not be draws? If indeed a 0:0 means a draw, because i suspect it does not mean a draw and it means that no program managed to play so it will not get any points.
In that case i agree that it is not good to play the tournament and the organizer should give more time to the authors to solve the problems.

it means both sides forfeited by not showing up to play on time. No other result would make any sense...

I think that players who cannot be at least 99.9% sure of playing all rounds should not register in the first place and programs that do not showing up to play in the first round should not play in the tournament.

I dislike what I see because at least 3 of the favourites lost games for reasons that are not about chess.

one professional(Naum) lost round 1 because of not being able to play on time.
Now I see that fruit and Junior also lost games because of a similiar problems that based on my understanding are not software problems(I understood that Junior lost because of 2 disconnects and fruit lost because the machine crashed),

Uri

There are two choices. If you don't show up, you can be tossed out completely, or forfeited for that round. I like the latter as that is how human events are run. When the TD says "start your clocks" you do so even if your opponent has not arrived. And generally you don't have to wait for his flag to fall to claim the victory. The TD will announce some "grace period" (1/2 hour, 1 hour, etc) and if you are not there by then, you lose, even if your clock still has time left...

I personally prefer for everyone to show up as expected. But each event some can't deal with the "EST/EDT start times" where Peter has _always_ said that the round start times are given as ICC server time which is Eastern Standard Time at the moment. This has been a problem in every event, and will likely continue to be one since it is a mistake anyone can make when being careless...

[bob]

What happened to FIDE rules? I could not find anything there about disconnects ending a game!

We use FIDE rules for the _games_. We have always had a couple of additional rules regarding disconnections, even allowing an opponent to stop their clock twice during a game if their machine crashes, power goes off, etc. There are unwritten rules in FIDE events as well. I once played in a human tournament where the playing hall went dark, and all games were suspended for about 45 minutes or so until power was restored. In another, the fire alarm went off and we had to evacuate for a short time... Those kinds of rules just evolve as special cases happen.

Completely unrelated to the rules of how the game is played during normal circumstances.

[Peter Skinner]

We use FIDE rules for the _games_. We have always had a couple of additional rules regarding disconnections, even allowing an opponent to stop their clock twice during a game if their machine crashes, power goes off, etc. There are unwritten rules in FIDE events as well. I once played in a human tournament where the playing hall went dark, and all games were suspended for about 45 minutes or so until power was restored. In another, the fire alarm went off and we had to evacuate for a short time... Those kinds of rules just evolve as special cases happen.

Completely unrelated to the rules of how the game is played during normal circumstances.

That is right, we use FIDE rules for the games, but due to it being an internet based event there are special rules in place.

The highly unpopular disconnection rule for one, but it really is required.

What I do like however is everyone that lost a game due to bugs with engines/internet took them and moved on. They might not have been happy about it, but they accepted the ruling and showed tremendous sportsmanship.

Glaurung lost a game due to disconnection, them won two because of it. Things happen.

TwistedLogic lost two games due to an endgame bug. Again, things happen and hopefully everything will work out tomorrow. Symbolic and ZCT did not show for two rounds, so I removed them.

Fruit lost a game due to engine failure, but Nolan just moved forward.

Overall I am extremely impressed with how everyone has adopted the rules, even when they may not agree with them.

It made what could have been an extremely frustrating day into a quite enjoyable one... at least for me.

Peter

[hgm]

Completely unrelated to the rules of how the game is played during normal circumstances.

Ah, but that statement is meaningless unless one defines what are 'norma' circumstances'.

I would say that normal circumstances are when two players sit behind a board, pushing wooden figures from square to square. Defenitely not when you stick electrodes in their heads to connect them to a GUI...

[Edsel Apostol]

A sad thing for Twisted Logic. Swami might not receive my e-mails as he didn't get a copy of the latest beta. The one that played is a middle of development version and has bugs.

Hope Twisted could recover in Blitz as Swami now got the latest beta.

Maybe in the next CCT, there should be a friendly preliminary round before the first round to check for problems with connections, bugs, etc.. this way when the first round starts there will be no more problems.

[bob]

A sad thing for Twisted Logic. Swami might not receive my e-mails as he didn't get a copy of the latest beta. The one that played is a middle of development version and has bugs.

Hope Twisted could recover in Blitz as Swami now got the latest beta.

Maybe in the next CCT, there should be a friendly preliminary round before the first round to check for problems with connections, bugs, etc.. this way when the first round starts there will be no more problems.

You can have a friendly first 100 rounds easily. That's why Peter asked everyone to check their account, connection, etc a week before the event...