Rybka mp x64 Speeds up, Deep Shredder x64 slows down

[kgburcham]

I have spent a lot of time on the game sites reading about x64 game speed increases. It seems there are many programmers that do not have the knowledge to increase speed when writing an x32 program to an x64 program. The Windows x64 will let me use over 3 gigs ram. The Windows x32 is limited to 2 gig ram.
I have Q6600 4 gig ram Windows XP Pro x32,
I also have Q6600 4 gig ram Windows XP Pro x64.

Someone on one of the game sites said the speed problem with Shredder was because I had the 120 day x64 trial version.
So I bought the full version, no change. Someone said that you had to make sure your program was in the "program" folder and not the "program x86" folder. I tried that, no change.
It has been fun the last two weeks trying to get a kns increase running Shredder but I have not accomplished it yet. So far I am getting about a 40% increase with Rybka 64 and a small decrease with Shredder 64.
At the game sites, there are many gamers experiencing the same thing with the non-chess games, a decrease in speed with the x64 games.

I have tried several test positions with the same results.
I am running a very lean system compared to most, nothing in the background running, extremely clean operating system for games.
I have format my three week old pc twice in the last three weeks just playing with partitions. Once I had only the x64 running with only a c: partition. Now I am back to two partitions with x64 on one and x32 on the other. This allows me to boot up on the x32 and run a test and then reboot on the x64 to compare.

I have run out of possiblities. Any suggestions? I am beginning to think it is the program. I will post an example of speed change.
If you have a position you want me to test x32 to x64, just post and I will show results of Shredder slowing down and Rybka speedup.

thanks
kgburcham

[kgburcham]

[d] 2kr3r/1pqbbp2/p2ppn1p/8/3N1P1p/2NBRQ2/PPP3PP/2KR4 w - - Bxa6

Rybka 2.3.2a mp x32
1024 hash
8.00 0:01 -0.35 1.Kb1 Kb8 (254.427) 241
9.00 0:01 -0.31 1.Kb1 Kb8 (449.542) 245
10.00 0:03 -0.34 1.Kb1 Kb8 (760.526) 251
11.00 0:05 -0.36 1.Kb1 Kb8 (1.456.998) 268
12.01 0:13 -0.45 1.Kb1 Kb8 (3.645.766) 273
13.01 0:17 -0.49 1.Kb1 Kb8 (4.794.293) 276
14.01 0:27 -0.51 1.Kb1 Kb8 (7.572.870) 281
15.01 0:43 -0.50 1.Kb1 Kb8 (12.174.275) 285
16.01 2:25 -0.56 1.Kb1 d5 (40.799.036) 287
16.18 2:59 -0.53 1.Ne4 d5 (50.816.206) 290
17.01 3:46 -0.60 1.Ne4 d5 (62.582.681) 283
17.02 4:44 -0.56 1.Kb1 d5 (76.155.903) 274
17.06 5:50 +0.09 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (93.691.932) 273
18.01 6:23 +0.04 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (101.333.642) 270
19.01 8:52 0.00 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (136.466.768) 262

best move: Bd3xa6 time: 10:13.859 min n/s: 264.827 nodes: 158.623.334

Rybka 2.3.2a mp x64
2048 hash
9.00 0:00 -0.34 1.Kb1 Kb8 (392.830) 407
10.00 0:01 -0.33 1.Kb1 Kb8 (744.070) 416
11.00 0:02 -0.34 1.Kb1 Kb8 (940.562) 419
12.01 0:04 -0.37 1.Kb1 Kb8 (1.818.305) 426
13.01 0:10 -0.43 1.Kb1 Kb8 (4.354.577) 434
14.01 0:18 -0.53 1.Kb1 Kb8 (8.012.688) 444
15.01 0:28 -0.51 1.Kb1 Kb8 (12.705.600) 455
16.01 0:43 -0.53 1.Kb1 Kb8 (19.504.800) 464
17.01 2:20 -0.57 1.Kb1 Kb8 (66.954.598) 489
17.04 2:32 0.00 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (72.936.250) 489
18.01 3:21 0.00 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (93.338.182) 473
19.01 3:49 0.00 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (105.427.613) 470
20.01 4:42 0.00 1.Bxa6 bxa6 (128.845.782) 466

best move: Bd3xa6 time: 5:36.500 min n/s: 468.060 nodes: 153.590.169

Deep Shredder 11 UCI x32
1024 hash
10/27 0:00 -0.81 1.Kb1 Kb8 (1.806.197) 2408
11/31 0:01 -0.90 1.Kb1 Kb8 (4.873.553) 2456
12/34 0:03 -0.93 1.Kb1 Kb8 (8.252.363) 2526
13/32 0:08 -1.04 1.Kb1 Kb8 (21.928.167) 2547
13/32 0:12 -0.89 1.Rde1 Kb8 (32.213.204) 2545
14/30 0:14 -0.94 1.Rde1 Kb8 (37.794.069) 2562
15/35 0:27 -1.40 1.Rde1 Kb8 (71.731.701) 2606
15/36 0:35 -1.03 1.Kb1 Kb8 (91.960.772) 2619
16/36 1:02 -1.12 1.Kb1 Kb8 .(164.774.929) 2641
17/36 1:45 -1.15 1.Kb1 Kb8 (284.853.089) 2693
18/47 6:02 -1.24 1.Kb1 Kb8 (972.856.181) 2683
19/42 9:23 -1.24 1.Kb1 Kb8 (1.536.778.877) 2724
20/46 13:03 -1.24 1.Kb1 Kb8 (2.156.918.823) 2753
21/51 23:37 -1.29 1.Kb1 Kb8 (3.966.622.488) 2799
21/64 77:08 -1.29++ 1.Bxa6 (14.025.372.515) 3030

best move: Bd3xa6 time: 77:08.500 min n/s: 3.030.250 CPU 399.9% n/s(1CPU): 757.751 nodes: 14.025.372.515

Shredder 11 UCI x64
2048 hash
10/24 0:00 -0.81 1.Kb1 Kb8 (2.064.382) 2316
11/30 0:01 -0.73 1.Kb1 Kb8 (4.006.994) 2396
12/32 0:02 -0.88 1.Kb1 Kb8 (7.215.923) 2430
13/33 0:10 -1.09 1.Kb1 Kb8 (25.459.461) 2442
14/32 0:23 -1.15 1.Kb1 Kb8 (58.108.008) 2477
15/34 0:39 -1.15 1.Kb1 Kb8 (99.177.705) 2528
16/36 1:09 -1.06 1.Kb1 Kb8 (178.281.799) 2554
17/40 1:48 -1.06 1.Kb1 Kb8 (277.218.311) 2551
18/45 2:46 -1.09 1.Kb1 Kb8 (434.396.545) 2606
19/47 6:12 -1.18 1.Kb1 Kb8 (993.700.226) 2666
20/51 15:41 -1.19 1.Kb1 Kb8 (2.556.197.264) 2713
21/52 28:59 -1.28 1.Kb1 Kb8 (4.790.283.097) 2753

best move: Kc1-b1 time: 87:10.156 min n/s: 2.768.409 CPU 399.8% n/s(1CPU): 692.448 nodes: 14.479.084.830

[Tony Thomas]

I am not sure if you read the post by Ingo. He explained your question rather well. Shredder is not a bitboard engine and will not gain crazy speed like Rybka, Zappa or any other bitboard engine. The most you could expect from Shredder is a 10% speed up, and that only on certain positions. Comparing Shredder and Rybka is sort of like comparing apples and oranges, because they both use completely different ideas.

[geots]

Tony, get your butt over to Tourn. and Matches - find my 2 posts today- and tell me thanks, and what great work i am doing. Not to mention my contribution to the computer chess community as a whole. And if i were to leave, i would be sorely missed- the whole thing might collapse.

[Uri Blass]

I am not sure if you read the post by Ingo. He explained your question rather well. Shredder is not a bitboard engine and will not gain crazy speed like Rybka, Zappa or any other bitboard engine. The most you could expect from Shredder is a 10% speed up, and that only on certain positions. Comparing Shredder and Rybka is sort of like comparing apples and oranges, because they both use completely different ideas.

The problem that is mentioned is slow down by shredder and not different speed improvement.
I can only guess that the computers are not the same because based on my knowledge shredder should be slightly faster with 64 bits when the same hardware is used and rybka should get more than 40% speed improvement from 64 bits.

Uri

[Tony Thomas]

I am not sure if you read the post by Ingo. He explained your question rather well. Shredder is not a bitboard engine and will not gain crazy speed like Rybka, Zappa or any other bitboard engine. The most you could expect from Shredder is a 10% speed up, and that only on certain positions. Comparing Shredder and Rybka is sort of like comparing apples and oranges, because they both use completely different ideas.

The problem that is mentioned is slow down by shredder and not different speed improvement.
I can only guess that the computers are not the same because based on my knowledge shredder should be slightly faster with 64 bits when the same hardware is used and rybka should get more than 40% speed improvement from 64 bits.

Uri

I guess I failed to notice the slow down part. I think he is using different computers, but I dont understand the logic behind using two different hashsizes for X32 and X64. Yes, he is using two different computers.

[Spock]

Someone on one of the game sites said the speed problem with Shredder was because I had the 120 day x64 trial version.
So I bought the full version, no change. Someone said that you had to make sure your program was in the "program" folder and not the "program x86" folder. I tried that, no change.

These people clearly have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, they were both ridiculous suggestions. Don't listen to them any more

[Spock]

I guess I failed to notice the slow down part. I think he is using different computers, but I dont understand the logic behind using two different hashsizes for X32 and X64. Yes, he is using two different computers.

Indeed - if he uses the same hash size for each, he should see a slight speedup from x64