How many people are interested in computer chess ?

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michiguel
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Re: How many people are interested in computer chess ?

Post by michiguel »

sje wrote:
michiguel wrote:How do you define feature?
It seems to me that a program written from scratch without access to other sources should contain at least one new item: a move ordering trick, an evaluation term, or maybe a novel user interface feature. Now the new item may not be superior to what wight be available elsewhere, but it word be new.

But maybe I'm asking for too much here. I'll guess that back in the pre Internet days of punch cards and paper tape, it was easier to write a de novo chess program just because there were no other sources available.

Well, Greenblatt's MacHack VI was generally available to the AI and DEC communities. But that was about it for nearly a decade.

If someone were to compile the Truly Exhaustive List of Chess Programs, it would be nice if each program had a list of new techniques that it first introduced.
How do I know if I have a new feature? For instance, I never did nullmove pruning. Since start, I did what I would say is nullmove reductions. I never thought this was new, but apparently it might have been. Later, nullmove verified research was published, which is very, very close. I always thought that my handling of checkmates was different. I found recently that HGMuller is doing something either similar or identical. I can go on and on. How do you define new? Anyway, I may have new things and I do not even know it [1]. I hope I have something new in the evaluation, otherwise it will be kind of sad, but who knows?

It is not that straightforward IMHO to know "novelty". It is simpler in Academia because we keep meticulous records, not always in CC, let alone when it is treated as hobby. I will define myself a computer chess enthusiast even if it turns out that there is no novel technique in Gaviota.

Miguel
[1] It is easy to be certain that something is NOT new.
vb4
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Re: How many people are interested in computer chess ?

Post by vb4 »

Hi Miguel,

I agree with you how does one define it. I have never written a chess engine before but am deeply interested in computers and chess. I have worked on several things that pertain to chess ie I am doing a study on egtb's for the last several years and have come across what I believe to be very interesting if after the 5-1 egtb's are completed and my findings hold true with that data. I am also currently just completed a utility which I call Mate Cruncher which allows me to store approximatley 100 chess positions using a couple of 100 "bits". These are not just the chess position but the side to move, enpassant, castling, am or bm and ce. The one stipulation is that the original position has to be a guarantedd mate to win or lose. Not quite sure what to do with it yet but I have been speaking to Dann Corbit about how we might use this and once we fully test it may be able to get some ideas. This application will take 1 epd position and generate up to 112 new mate positions and can also generate several thousand moves to avoid just from one position.

Does this qualify me in this field of explorers ?? <s>

Les
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sje
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Re: How many people are interested in computer chess ?

Post by sje »

I'd guess that everyone that's done a lot of chess programming from scratch and without much research has inadvertently duplicated a whole lot of work. Is that a waste of time? Not always, as it can be a major learning experience.

But lesson number one of that experience is: "Do the research first!"

Perhaps that Truly Exhaustive List of Chess Programs should also contain for each entry a list of new ideas that turned out not to work. This would save a lot of time with only a moderate cost of embarrassment. My earlier program Spector had a bunch of these, and Symbolic has a couple as well.

If write a world class program that wins a lot of events, that's nice. But if that's all it can do and has no influence on the design of future programs, then your effort will be little more than a historical footnote a dozen years from now.