Hysteria on CCC

[Sylwy]

Hi all !

I noted a hysterical status on CCC in the latest two weeks . A lot of accusations , fragments of code, demonstrations ,proposals ,agitations ,poems ,commissions ............. I missed something please ?
All this agitation is the FRUIT of four programmers: Christophe Theron,Robert Hyatt,Zach Wegner and sometimes Norman Schmidt. Chess Tiger and Crafty are now history.I can't see any real progress in the latest years. Zach Wegner is the author of an anonymous chess engine(s)-ZCT- and Norman Schmidt..........................any accusation .

Does anybody know what they really want ? Please let me know !
Rybka 3 has a such strength, a such analysis capacity that makes impossible any comparison.

I can understand -a bit-Chriastophe Theron and Robert Hyatt. They are old in branch and now......... surpassed in a such manner ! Norman Schmidt was excluded from the chess engines commerce.Understandable ! Zach Wegner ? Envy again ?

Finally, what they really want ? To linch Vas ? Rybka to become Crafty 30 or Chess Tiger 2008 ? Vas to become monk ? A public "colpa mea" from Vas ? The source code of Rybka 3 ?............

Let me know please !

Regards,
Silvian

[Terry McCracken]

Hi all !

I noted a hysterical status on CCC in the latest two weeks . A lot of accusations , fragments of code, demonstrations ,proposals ,agitations ,poems ,commissions ............. I missed something please ?
All this agitation is the FRUIT of four programmers: Christophe Theron,Robert Hyatt,Zach Wegner and sometimes Norman Schmidt. Chess Tiger and Crafty are now history.I can't see any real progress in the latest years. Zach Wegner is the author of an anonymous chess engine(s)-ZCT- and Norman Schmidt..........................any accusation .

Does anybody know what they really want ? Please let me know !
Rybka 3 has a such strength, a such analysis capacity that makes impossible any comparison.

I can understand -a bit-Chriastophe Theron and Robert Hyatt. They are old in branch and now......... surpassed in a such manner ! Norman Schmidt was excluded from the chess engines commerce.Understandable ! Zach Wegner ? Envy again ?

Finally, what they really want ? To linch Vas ? Rybka to become Crafty 30 or Chess Tiger 2008 ? Vas to become monk ? A public "colpa mea" from Vas ? The source code of Rybka 3 ?............

Let me know please !

Regards,
Silvian

Actually, the Hysteria that is drowning out reason with hand waving, finger pointing and a lot of shrieks that would make a Banshee Blush is coming mostly from the Vas worshipers.

[jdart]

Well, I don't think all discussion has been hysterial. But there's been a lot of it lately. You may have noticed I haven't had any input to it.

I don't really doubt Vas when he says Rybka is original.

Some people seem to be demanding more than a usual or legally required degree of originality from new programs. But there's hundreds of open source programs out there. Plus a huge literature on search algorithms, eval, etc. Asking everyone to think it all out from scratch seems not reasonable and not conducive to progress in the field.

Now, GPL does restrict literal copying in specific ways. If a GPL breach occurs or is thought to have occurred I think the main affected party is the author and that person ought to determine if there's anything significant in it and whether they have been harmed by it or not. Maybe this ought not to hashed out in a public forum. GPL is an agreement between authors and users of code. It doesn't imply the whole world gets to police that agreement.

Also as I think the moderators have noted unfounded accusations can rebound on the accuser.

[GenoM]

In the last time I think that all this process leads to nowhere.
I've recalled that except Fruit code in Strelka there is Rybka code too (confirmed by Rajlich and Osipov). And I've recalled that Letouzey have said that in Strelka there is no theft (without any doubt this statement of Fabien refers too to Rybka's parts of code in Strelka that may be -- with high probability -- are adapted parts of Fruit).
So...
It seems that even if Vasik Rajlich had rewritten Fruit to bitboards, he had adapted and reworked the Fruit part in such way that the original author can't have any claims on it. Of course in Rybka beta there has to be very much of original work and ideas of Rajlich.
So...
If there is not any proof that code is copied and in Rybka beta the code is all rewritten may be this way leads to nowhere...
So there has to be a strong evidence of copied code -- but without original Rybka code (not reverse-engineered) this seems to be an impossible task.

[tiger]

In the last time I think that all this process leads to nowhere.
I've recalled that except Fruit code in Strelka there is Rybka code too (confirmed by Rajlich and Osipov). And I've recalled that Letouzey have said that in Strelka there is no theft (without any doubt this statement of Fabien refers too to Rybka's parts of code in Strelka that may be -- with high probability -- are adapted parts of Fruit).
So...
It seems that even if Vasik Rajlich had rewritten Fruit to bitboards, he had adapted and reworked the Fruit part in such way that the original author can't have any claims on it. Of course in Rybka beta there has to be very much of original work and ideas of Rajlich.
So...
If there is not any proof that code is copied and in Rybka beta the code is all rewritten may be this way leads to nowhere...
So there has to be a strong evidence of copied code -- but without original Rybka code (not reverse-engineered) this seems to be an impossible task.

I had not thought about it! You can't possibly breach the GPL if you do not publish your source code! That simple!



// Christophe