For ZACH WEGNER

[Roman Hartmann]

George,
please do yourself a favor and keep out of all the GPL-violation talks. You have obviously no clue about the matter and nothing to add of value. You're only polluting all those threads.

Vas is a clever guy and certainly doesn't need a defense like yours.

best regards
Roman

[gerold]

George,
please do yourself a favor and keep out of all the GPL-violation talks. You have obviously no clue about the matter and nothing to add of value. You're only polluting all those threads.

Vas is a clever guy and certainly doesn't need a defense like yours.

best regards
Roman

Hello Roman. Vas needs all the friends he can get because of
this serious charge. George knows what he is talking about.
When the shoe is on the other foot cry wolfffffffffffff.

[GenoM]

Yes, of course, "Vas" can not defend himself and he needs the help of George, Rolf and others.

[bob]

And by the way, I invite EVERYONE, especially programmers, to look through my code. It's easily visible online, no need to download anything: http://zct.cvs.sourceforge.net/zct/zct/

I promise you that you do not want to hear what they told me on a public forum.

I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear anything they have to say on any forum. But not for the reason you are implying...

Sic 'em on my code next, that ought to be good for a laugh, once the "professionals" figure out what I do and how, which might keep 'em busy for a while.

Certainly only those searching for the truth in the copying questions. Guess that would leave you out of course.

Rybka- 30 Crafty- 0 Exactly who would care about your code

[bob]

And by the way, I invite EVERYONE, especially programmers, to look through my code. It's easily visible online, no need to download anything: http://zct.cvs.sourceforge.net/zct/zct/

I promise you that you do not want to hear what they told me on a public forum.

I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear anything they have to say on any forum. But not for the reason you are implying...

Sic 'em on my code next, that ought to be good for a laugh, once the "professionals" figure out what I do and how, which might keep 'em busy for a while.

Rybka- 30 Crafty- 0 Exactly who would care about your code

Almost every programmer including the one who wrote the program you are comparing it to has studied Crafty. I am not 100% sure what Prof. Hyatts goal is with Crafty but the reality is that it is used as a learning tool for most programmers in computer chess.

Ryan, just a ballpark figure- but how much time would you guess Vas spent studying Crafty?

Not much if he spent time copying fruit.

These "one liners" tend to cut both ways don't they?

[bob]

And by the way, I invite EVERYONE, especially programmers, to look through my code. It's easily visible online, no need to download anything: http://zct.cvs.sourceforge.net/zct/zct/

I promise you that you do not want to hear what they told me on a public forum.

I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear anything they have to say on any forum. But not for the reason you are implying...

Sic 'em on my code next, that ought to be good for a laugh, once the "professionals" figure out what I do and how, which might keep 'em busy for a while.

Rybka- 30 Crafty- 0 Exactly who would care about your code

Almost every programmer including the one who wrote the program you are comparing it to has studied Crafty. I am not 100% sure what Prof. Hyatts goal is with Crafty but the reality is that it is used as a learning tool for most programmers in computer chess.

Ryan, just a ballpark figure- but how much time would you guess Vas spent studying Crafty?

A post full of contempt coming from a member of one of the most respected rating list...

If you feel such disdain for Crafty or ZCT because of their strength, then what about all the programs that are below them in your rating list?

Is your respect for the programmers following the same scale as the CCRL list?

I'm really concerned by your attitude and what it reveals.



// Christophe

Waste of time. I am only concerned by the attitudes of people that have earned my respect in the first place..

[bob]

That was never the point, Ryan.

Then what is it George?

I'm still expecting a PM or an email with all of this... well, I'm not exactly sure what it is. But I am waiting...

Zach:

First rule of message boards, "do not feed the trolls". I know we all get sucked into it, but if you stop feeding them, they die and don't bother anyone any more...

I wasnt going to really bring this up, but since you are calling me a "troll"- i think i have the right to say that you are the one person on this forum i have absolutley zero use for- will never have any use for- and thank God you feel the same way.

Something we agree on, finally. I don't have much of a warm and fuzzy feeling about either your honesty or your character. Just last week you wanted to discuss something in private, if you recall, and you made a public note of it here. Of course there was no private conversation in your plans, and one did not take place. But you apparently wanted to leave the impression there was.

Just like your "well-known programmers" looking at Zach's code and your having been told something Zach would not want posted in a public place.

You might try "the truth" at least occasionally, if it isn't too much trouble for you...

[bob]

Yes, of course, "Vas" can not defend himself and he needs the help of George, Rolf and others.

All this could be useful for is an "appeal" later. "Your honor, I was represented by inadequate counsel. They were incompetent. I ask that you throw that verdict out and require a new trial where I can find some technically competent people to defend me more properly."

[Bill Rogers]

A question about GPL code. How many chess programs use Alpha-Beta? How many use iterinative deepening or follow the PV. How may chess programs use the same logic in creating a chess board itself, not the one they display but the one used by the program internally?
How many chess programs using the GPL license all use one of more of these technics in their programs when this knowledge has been public knowledge and free for dozens of years now. Hell, even the search may be exactly like hundreds of other free and private progams that are out there.
Given all these facts just what part of a chess program licensed in GPL is really protected and what parts were copied form open source programs that have been free.
Bill

[bob]

A question about GPL code. How many chess programs use Alpha-Beta? How many use iterinative deepening or follow the PV. How may chess programs use the same logic in creating a chess board itself, not the one they display but the one used by the program internally?
How many chess programs using the GPL license all use one of more of these technics in their programs when this knowledge has been public knowledge and free for dozens of years now. Hell, even the search may be exactly like hundreds of other free and private progams that are out there.
Given all these facts just what part of a chess program licensed in GPL is really protected and what parts were copied form open source programs that have been free.
Bill

You should not comment if you don't understand the simple GPL issue. The GPL protects _specific_ lines of code. Not algorithms or ideas. There are an infinite number of ways to write a recursive alpha/beta search function. I might be able to find about 100 othello programs that have been written by students in an AI course here and let you compare them if you can't grasp that. _none_ are similar in any way other than basic functionality...

SO there is no naturally-occurring case where two independent programmers will sit down and produce the same identical blocks of code in different places, or even one identical block in the same place) in a large program such as chess. It just doesn't happen. Until you get into the probability range where enough monkeys and typewriters, given enough time, will produce whatever literary work you want to name. With maybe 500 active authors, I can guarantee you that 500 monkeys in a room are just going to produce tons of gibberish. Millions would do the same. The probability of producing identical code is vanishingly small in a program of this size. And _any_ programmer knows that, whether he wants to admit it or argue the point ad nauseum.

This particular explanation just will not hold its water in _any_ group of technical people. Period.

The discussion here is not comparing basic functionality. It is comparing blocks of identical source code. That's a huge difference.