To campaign or not

[Michael J Fitch]

Thanks for the support guys.

Well, you don't have mine

It's good to know that there's a bit of common sense left on this forum.

Common sense is that you provide proof. I am sorry but you have not. When you attack do it right, with proof else it will backfire on you, as it does now. The rule innocent until proven applies.

Zach, you are obviously a bright guy and looking at your age you must have a lot of potential. Realize that (chess) programming is something entirely different than politics, the latter being an issue you apparently not master. No real surprise looking at your age!

I suggest you to work on a document that beyond any doubt provides the evidence Rybka contains Fruit code. Else it is better for you to step down and hope that people will forget real fast.

Enrique made me aware of this thread and it made me subscribe again to CCC as I have been the victim of a similar accusation back in 1994 with (the commercial) REBEL-6 when the program was accused of having manipulated a then popular rating test. I tell you it was ugly. But at least the accusers got it right, very good detective work, they came with 100% proof except that they judged my intentions wrong. I immediately pleaded guilty. You see, that's what proof does.

Another example from the past, old-timers here will surely remember. In 1995/96 MCHESS-5 was leading the SSDF-list for the wrong reasons. I discovered it and provided the 100% proof in RGCC (the precursor of CCC so to say) and got 95% of the experts behind me.

Proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof...............

I hope this all makes some sense to you and wish you all the best.

Ed

Hello ED= Mr. REBEL
I basically said the same thing you did-yesterday(Below-in parenthesis, in the thread "question for Vas")-and got no response at all.
Maybe it was my disclaimer at the bottom where i state that i don't know crap about programming, BUT i think we agree that this public opinion investigation should have been handled in-house, and once some substantial evidence of wrong doing could easily be proven then confront Vas, and if he doesn't respond then bring it to the forum for all to see. END OF RANT !!!
Regards
Michael


Michael J Fitch

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Nevada
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Questions for Vas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zach Wegner wrote:
Gerd Isenberg wrote:
Anyway, I found xor castle state more natural, even with your mentioned initialization issues. You can not get a castle right back in make move. Thus a one bit in the xor sum of the states implies appropriate castle rights lost in make move and is therefor sufficient as index. Probably I am a bit biased with my quad-bitboard color flipper
Interesting. I still think it is rather unnatural, but I can see your reasoning. Of course, Fabien also seemed to favor that method. It does seem to me to be a rather unconventional way, though.
Quote:
I appreciate your courage, fairness and reasoning!
Believe me Gerd, the feeling is mutual. This forum is a very difficult place to conduct any sort of an investigation. We have tried to make it a public process, so that as many objective opinions can be gathered and so that we can get as much information public as quickly as possible. This seemed to backfire rather badly.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
((( As well it should !!
Why did you and your cronies feel the need to bring your public opinion investigation to this forum as quickly as possible?
Wouldn't a completely thorough investigation, presenting ALL evidence of wrong doing-after you had ALL the facts of wrong doing be more acceptable than if's-and's-but's-maybe's-couldn't possible happen- blah blah blah?
I know the post is Question for Vas, but i believe he answered this question a long time ago.I copied this from another post-maybe you've read it-maybe not-but it speaks volumes to me as far as the development of Rybka-which got alot of help/IDEAS from alot of people, as stated by it's author/programmer !!!

Special Thanks

I hesitate to include this section because I know I'll forget people who have been helpful in this project, but (with advance apologies to the omitted) here goes:

Robert Hyatt - For Crafty. There is nothing like an open source program for passing knowledge to the next generation.
Fabien Letouzey - For Fruit, which shattered a number of computer chess myths, demonstrated several interesting ideas, and made even the densest of us aware of fail-low pruning.
Tord Romstad - For making Fabien aware of fail-low pruning , and more seriously for sharing in every way possible his considerable knowledge.
Eugene Nalimov - For his cryptic but somehow fully functional endgame tablebase access code.
Uri Blass, Gerd Isenberg, Dieter Burssner, Vincent Diepeveen, Raschid Chan, Anthony Cozzie, Mridul M* , Thomas Gaksch, Peter Berger, Sandro Necchi, Ed Shroeder, Amir Ban, Christophe Theron and every one else, past and present, on the computer chess club: For sharing their computer chess knowledge despite the fact that in principle computer chess is a competitive field.
Heinz van Kempen, Guenther Simon, Olivier Deville, Sergio Martinez, Claude Dubois: for testing early versions of Rybka despite countless bugs and annoying problems.
Alex Dumov, Gabriel Luca: for helping a Windows newbie get up to around half-speed without excessive derision (or at least open derision )
and Iweta: for being great! and a pretty good Rybka tester and web master to boot

Happy testing, and best chess regards,
Vasik Rajlich
Budapest Hungary
December 4, 2005

((( my 2 cents, which amounts to nothing given i don't know crap about programming-but i love chess !!!

Regards
Michael


_________________
Where ever you go, there you are!!
[/quote]

[GenoM]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

[Graham Banks]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

[tiger]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

If the rule is that you can claim anybody's wheel as your own we are back at stone age for sure.



// Christophe

[bigo]

Thanks for the support guys.

Well, you don't have mine

It's good to know that there's a bit of common sense left on this forum.

Common sense is that you provide proof. I am sorry but you have not. When you attack do it right, with proof else it will backfire on you, as it does now. The rule innocent until proven applies.

Zach, you are obviously a bright guy and looking at your age you must have a lot of potential. Realize that (chess) programming is something entirely different than politics, the latter being an issue you apparently not master. No real surprise looking at your age!

I suggest you to work on a document that beyond any doubt provides the evidence Rybka contains Fruit code. Else it is better for you to step down and hope that people will forget real fast.

Enrique made me aware of this thread and it made me subscribe again to CCC as I have been the victim of a similar accusation back in 1994 with (the commercial) REBEL-6 when the program was accused of having manipulated a then popular rating test. I tell you it was ugly. But at least the accusers got it right, very good detective work, they came with 100% proof except that they judged my intentions wrong. I immediately pleaded guilty. You see, that's what proof does.

Another example from the past, old-timers here will surely remember. In 1995/96 MCHESS-5 was leading the SSDF-list for the wrong reasons. I discovered it and provided the 100% proof in RGCC (the precursor of CCC so to say) and got 95% of the experts behind me.

Proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof, proof...............

I hope this all makes some sense to you and wish you all the best.

Ed

The unimpeachable Ed Shroeder has spoken!! Nice supporting post Ed, I was just wondering when you would come into this debate.

[GenoM]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

Please explain me what politics has to do with inventing the wheel?
And in your example: are the wheels of your car yours? Or you get them from anybody else's car?

[Tony]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

Without blind followers, refusing to think for themselves and making enough noise to silence other thinkers, Hitler would just have been a strange angry man.

Tony

[Graham Banks]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

Without blind followers, refusing to think for themselves and making enough noise to silence other thinkers, Hitler would just have been a strange angry man.

Tony

Interesting that you interpret me as a blind Rybka follower Tony.
I'd have stuck up for any engine author being persecuted and vilified in such a merciless and public manner.
And yes, I know you'll say that none of you have anything against Vas, but I'm afraid that it certainly doesn't look that way.
I hope that you never have to face such an inquisition.
If you felt you had a case, it should have been put together in private and then presented in its entirety as somebody else suggested.

Graham.

[Tony]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

Without blind followers, refusing to think for themselves and making enough noise to silence other thinkers, Hitler would just have been a strange angry man.

Tony

Interesting that you interpret me as a blind Rybka follower Tony.
I'd have stuck up for any engine author being persecuted and vilified in such a merciless and public manner.
And yes, I know you'll say that none of you have anything against Vas, but I'm afraid that it certainly doesn't look that way.
I hope that you never have to face such an inquisition.
If you felt you had a case, it should have been put together in private and then presented in its entirety as somebody else suggested.

Graham.

I have only been accused twice. Both times you were involved, so your remarks above sound really sincere (about as much as your excuses).

Tony

[Graham Banks]

Well you better watch out and start learning some politics fast.

If the scientists had been learning some politics instead of researching for truth, you would be still living in the stone age.

If everybody had to construct a new and totally unique wheel when they needed one, we'd still be living in the stone age too.

Without blind followers, refusing to think for themselves and making enough noise to silence other thinkers, Hitler would just have been a strange angry man.

Tony

Interesting that you interpret me as a blind Rybka follower Tony.
I'd have stuck up for any engine author being persecuted and vilified in such a merciless and public manner.
And yes, I know you'll say that none of you have anything against Vas, but I'm afraid that it certainly doesn't look that way.
I hope that you never have to face such an inquisition.
If you felt you had a case, it should have been put together in private and then presented in its entirety as somebody else suggested.

Graham.

I have only been accused twice. Both times you were involved, so your remarks above sound really sincere (about as much as your excuses).

Tony

And did you notice that I apologised to you or does that not mean anything?
If I'd gone after you the same way you've gone after Uri, you'd know all about being persecuted.

Graham.