WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

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NJDenson
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 7:01 pm

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by NJDenson »

I am thinking that Hiarcs may be the winner of this one. I am wondering what it can do on equal hardware. I would like to see a match between these two on equal hardware.
Dr.Ex
Posts: 202
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Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by Dr.Ex »

Graham Banks wrote:[Event "WCCC 2008 R8"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.10.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "Hiarcs"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "50/5700:10/1020:1200"]

{256MB, Hiarcs A.ctg, HARVEYWILLID19E} 1. e4 {0} c5 {B/0 0} 2. Nf3 {11} Nc6 {
B/0 0} 3. d4 {9} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {7} e5 {B/0 0} 5. Nb5 {8} d6 {B/0 0} 6.
N1c3 {8} a6 {B/0 0} 7. Na3 {8} Rb8 {B/0 1} 8. Nc4 {389} Nf6 {B/0 0} 9. Bg5 {167
} b5 {0.47/18 144} 10. Bxf6 {(Ne3) 154} Qxf6 {0.41/19 221} 11. Ne3 {9} Be7 {
0.46/18 264} 12. a4 {(Ncd5) 137} bxa4 {0.75/17 223} 13. Rxa4 {9} Rxb2 {
0.83/18 239} 14. Ncd5 {153} Qg6 {0.96/18 1} 15. Bxa6 {75} Bd7 {1.13/18 104} 16.
Nc7+ {97} Kd8 {1.00/18 1} 17. Qa1 {(Ncd5) 44} Rb8 {2.34/19 936} 18. Bb5 {
(Ncd5) 13} *

[d]1r1k3r/2Nbbppp/2np2q1/1B2p3/R3P3/4N3/2P2PPP/Q3K2R b K - 0 18

All one way traffic it would appear.
It was not the fault of Hiarcs, the book move 7...Rb8 is simply rubbish.
PauloSoare
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Location: Cabo Frio, Brasil

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by PauloSoare »

According to Lukas, the miracle man of the 40 clusters,
the win over Hiarcs is mainly due to Jeroen, the
book author.

Paulo Soares
Dr.Ex
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:10 am

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by Dr.Ex »

PauloSoare wrote:According to Lukas, the miracle man of the 40 clusters,
the win over Hiarcs is mainly due to Jeroen, the
book author.

Paulo Soares
Isn't that Nonsense?
According to the game score Rybka was out of book at move 8.

[Event "WCCC 2008 R8"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.10.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "Hiarcs"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "50/5700:10/1020:1200"]

{256MB, Hiarcs A.ctg, HARVEYWILLID19E} 1. e4 {0} c5 {B/0 0} 2. Nf3 {11} Nc6 {
B/0 0} 3. d4 {9} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {7} e5 {B/0 0} 5. Nb5 {8} d6 {B/0 0} 6.
N1c3 {8} a6 {B/0 0} 7. Na3 {8} Rb8 {B/0 1} 8. Nc4 {389}
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AdminX
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Location: Acworth, GA

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by AdminX »

Jeroen's book (Chessbase Rybka Book) for Rykba gives 8. Nd5 and 8. Bd3, so what is the story on this.

Thanks
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers
PauloSoare
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:30 am
Location: Cabo Frio, Brasil

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by PauloSoare »

Dr.Ex wrote:
PauloSoare wrote:According to Lukas, the miracle man of the 40 clusters,
the win over Hiarcs is mainly due to Jeroen, the
book author.

Paulo Soares
Isn't that Nonsense?
According to the game score Rybka was out of book at move 8.

[Event "WCCC 2008 R8"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.10.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "Hiarcs"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "50/5700:10/1020:1200"]

{256MB, Hiarcs A.ctg, HARVEYWILLID19E} 1. e4 {0} c5 {B/0 0} 2. Nf3 {11} Nc6 {
B/0 0} 3. d4 {9} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {7} e5 {B/0 0} 5. Nb5 {8} d6 {B/0 0} 6.
N1c3 {8} a6 {B/0 0} 7. Na3 {8} Rb8 {B/0 1} 8. Nc4 {389}
I don´t know, because in the Rybka 3 book , by Jeroen,
there are two moves, 8. Nd5 and 8 Bd3. Why Jeroen did not use
8. Nd5, considered the best? The war of openings, at this level,
it´s complex, maybe Jeroen knew that 8. Nc4 would be played by Rybka,
and the opening was very good for Rybka.
I already saw this strategy being used on Playchess

Paulo Soares
Dr.Ex
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:10 am

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by Dr.Ex »

PauloSoare wrote:
Dr.Ex wrote:
PauloSoare wrote:According to Lukas, the miracle man of the 40 clusters,
the win over Hiarcs is mainly due to Jeroen, the
book author.

Paulo Soares
Isn't that Nonsense?
According to the game score Rybka was out of book at move 8.

[Event "WCCC 2008 R8"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.10.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "Hiarcs"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "50/5700:10/1020:1200"]

{256MB, Hiarcs A.ctg, HARVEYWILLID19E} 1. e4 {0} c5 {B/0 0} 2. Nf3 {11} Nc6 {
B/0 0} 3. d4 {9} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {7} e5 {B/0 0} 5. Nb5 {8} d6 {B/0 0} 6.
N1c3 {8} a6 {B/0 0} 7. Na3 {8} Rb8 {B/0 1} 8. Nc4 {389}
I don´t know, because in the Rybka 3 book , by Jeroen,
there are two moves, 8. Nd5 and 8 Bd3. Why Jeroen did not use
8. Nd5, considered the best? The war of openings, at this level,
it´s complex, maybe Jeroen knew that 8. Nc4 would be played by Rybka,
and the opening was very good for Rybka.
I already saw this strategy being used on Playchess

Paulo Soares
I guess 7...Rb8?! is a playchess machine room invention. There is not a single human game in the databases. After 8.Nc4?! Black has a chance to get back into known theory by transposition with 8...Be6.
The move 8...Nf6? was refuted convincingly in the game, I think.
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Sylwy
Posts: 4864
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Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by Sylwy »

Tony Thomas wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:So Rybka has pretty much won the tournament even if it were to lose the last round.
Yes.

Such dominance never before seen, we have..


Master yoda regards

Oui , mon cher !

Louis XIV
PauloSoare
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:30 am
Location: Cabo Frio, Brasil

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by PauloSoare »

Dr.Ex wrote:
PauloSoare wrote:
Dr.Ex wrote:
PauloSoare wrote:According to Lukas, the miracle man of the 40 clusters,
the win over Hiarcs is mainly due to Jeroen, the
book author.

Paulo Soares
Isn't that Nonsense?
According to the game score Rybka was out of book at move 8.

[Event "WCCC 2008 R8"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.10.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka"]
[Black "Hiarcs"]
[Result "*"]
[PlyCount "35"]
[EventDate "2008.??.??"]
[TimeControl "50/5700:10/1020:1200"]

{256MB, Hiarcs A.ctg, HARVEYWILLID19E} 1. e4 {0} c5 {B/0 0} 2. Nf3 {11} Nc6 {
B/0 0} 3. d4 {9} cxd4 {B/0 0} 4. Nxd4 {7} e5 {B/0 0} 5. Nb5 {8} d6 {B/0 0} 6.
N1c3 {8} a6 {B/0 0} 7. Na3 {8} Rb8 {B/0 1} 8. Nc4 {389}
I don´t know, because in the Rybka 3 book , by Jeroen,
there are two moves, 8. Nd5 and 8 Bd3. Why Jeroen did not use
8. Nd5, considered the best? The war of openings, at this level,
it´s complex, maybe Jeroen knew that 8. Nc4 would be played by Rybka,
and the opening was very good for Rybka.
I already saw this strategy being used on Playchess

Paulo Soares
I guess 7...Rb8?! is a playchess machine room invention. There is not a single human game in the databases. After 8.Nc4?! Black has a chance to get back into known theory by transposition with 8...Be6.
The move 8...Nf6? was refuted convincingly in the game, I think.

You must be rigth about 7....Rb8 in the game Rybka x Hiarcs, never used in your
database by humans. But the openings in matches between engines are prepared
differently. For example, to an engine with a good hardware, sometimes it is
better not follow the human opening theory. Difficult for me to know if 8. Nc4 it´s
a questionable move, I would have much time to analyze the position with computer help.
Several programs play 8...Nf6, including Rybka.

In the game Junior x Rybka, Junior played 6. dxc5, This move is used by humans?
Junior made an excellent opening.


[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.10.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Junior"]
[Black "Rybka"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B28"]
[Annotator "Nightwish35"]
[PlyCount "126"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 a6 3. c3 e6 4. d4 d5 5. e5 Bd7 6. dxc5 Bxc5 7. Bd3 Qc7 8. O-O
Ne7 9. Re1 Ng6 10. Nbd2 Qb6 11. Nd4 Nc6 12. N2b3 Ngxe5 13. Nxc5 Qxc5 14. Bf4
Nxd3 15. Qxd3 O-O 16. Qg3 Nxd4 17. Bd6 Qb6 18. cxd4 Rfc8 19. Be5 g6 20. Qf4 Qd8
21. Re3 Rc2 22. Rh3 f5 23. Rg3 Be8 24. h4 Qe7 25. Rc1 Rac8 26. Rxc2 Rxc2 27. h5
Bf7 28. a3 b5 29. Bd6 Qd8 30. h6 Qf6 31. Bc5 Be8 32. Qb8 Kf7 33. Qd6 Rc1+ 34.
Kh2 Kg8 35. Re3 Qh4+ 36. Rh3 Qf6 37. b4 Re1 38. f4 Re4 39. Qb6 g5 40. fxg5 Qf7
41. Kg1 Rg4 42. Qd8 f4 43. Rf3 Qg6 44. Be7 Qb1+ 45. Rf1 Rxg2+ 46. Kxg2 Qe4+ 47.
Kg1 Qe3+ 48. Rf2 Qg3+ 49. Kf1 Qh3+ 50. Ke2 Qe3+ 51. Kd1 Qd3+ 52. Rd2 Qb1+ 53.
Ke2 Qe4+ 54. Kf1 Qf3+ 55. Ke1 Qh1+ 56. Kf2 Qh2+ 57. Kf3 Qg3+ 58. Ke2 Qe3+ 59.
Kd1 Qb3+ 60. Rc2 Qd3+ 61. Kc1 Qxa3+ 62. Kb1 Qb3+ 63. Ka1 Qa3+ 1/2-1/2
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M ANSARI
Posts: 3726
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm

Re: WCCC - Rybka v Hiarcs Round 8

Post by M ANSARI »

This seems like a Playchess cultivated move which is not really a very wise decision due to several factors. One is that on Playchess games are usually not more than 16 0 and another is that the Rybka playing probably has a different evaluation than the one that plays on Playchess and thus predicting its moves in inferior positions are difficult.

Having said that, it seems to have worked with Junior. They found a chink in Rybka's preparation and got it in a positionally lost position very quickly. Junior was not strong enough to get the point though and that is why Rybka is such an extraordinary engine.