White to Play and Win

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Terry McCracken
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White to Play and Win

Post by Terry McCracken »

[d]r1b2rk1/1p1nb1p1/1q2p2p/p2pP3/P7/3B1NP1/1PQ3KP/R1B2R2 w - - 0 19

How long does it take your computer/program to see 19. Bxh6!! wins?
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Ovyron
Posts: 4562
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Re: White to Play and Win

Post by Ovyron »

Bright 0.2c finds the move, good score not found in reasonable time but I think that's an exercise for interactive analysis:

Engine: bright-0.2c (64 MB)
by AJ Siemelink
<snip>
8/30 0:00 -0.94 1.Bg6 Nc5 2.Be3 Qb3 3.Nh4 Qxc2+ 4.Bxc2 Bd7 5.Ng6 (218.937) 0
9/30 0:01 -1.12 1.Bg6 Qc5 2.Qd3 Qb4 3.Bd2 Qb6 4.Rac1 Bc5 5.Rc2 (769.502) 0
10/30 0:02 -1.06 1.Bg6 Qc5 2.Qd3 Qc7 3.Be3 Nc5 4.Rac1 Bd7 5.b3 Nxd3 6.Rxc7 (1.706.933) 0
10/39 0:03 -1.00 1.Bf4 Nc5 2.Bb5 Ne4 3.Nd2 Ng5 4.Bxg5 Rxf1 5.Rxf1 Bxg5 (2.324.919) 0
11/45 0:12 -0.97 1.Bf4 Qc5 2.Rac1 Qxc2+ 3.Rxc2 g5 4.Bd2 g4 5.Nd4 Nxe5 6.Rxf8+ Bxf8 7.Be2 (7.713.716) 0
11/45 0:14 -0.81 1.Bxh6 gxh6 2.Bh7+ Kh8 3.Qg6 Nf6 4.exf6 Qxb2+ 5.Kh1 Qxf6 6.Ne5 Qxg6 7.Nxg6+ Kxh7 8.Nxf8+ Kg7 (9.274.722) 0
12/50 0:19 -0.87 1.Bxh6 gxh6 2.Bh7+ Kh8 3.Qg6 Nf6 4.exf6 Qxb2+ 5.Kh1 Qxf6 6.Ne5 Qxg6 7.Nxg6+ Kxh7 8.Nxf8+ Kg7 9.Nh7 (12.631.602) 0
12/50 0:26 -0.79 1.Bf4 Qc5 2.Bh7+ Kh8 3.Qg6 Rxf4 4.gxf4 Qb4 5.Rac1 Nc5 6.Qf7 Kxh7 7.Qxe7 Qxb2+ 8.Kg3 Nxa4 (16.608.034) 0
13/50 0:46 -0.62 1.Bf4 Kh8 2.Nh4 Bxh4 3.gxh4 Qd8 4.Bg3 Rb8 5.Rac1 Rxf1 6.Rxf1 b6 7.Qc6 Qe7 8.Qc7 (30.237.321) 0
13/50 1:01 0.00 1.Bxh6 gxh6 2.Bh7+ Kh8 3.Qg6 Qxb2+ 4.Kh1 Nf6 5.Ng5 Bd7 6.Bg8 Qxe5 7.Qxh6+ Kxg8 8.Qg6+ Kh8 9.Qh6+ Kg8 (38.936.209) 0
14/60 1:14 0.00 1.Bxh6 gxh6 2.Bh7+ Kh8 3.Qg6 Qxb2+ 4.Kh1 Nf6 5.Ng5 Bd7 6.Bg8 Qxe5 7.Qxh6+ Kxg8 8.Qg6+ Kh8 9.Qh6+ Kg8 (47.165.723) 0
Anil
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: White to Play and Win

Post by Anil »

Rybka WinFinder gets the move in 52 seconds, but doesn't see the win in 5 minutes and at depth 16.

4 00:00 2.311 73.952 0.00 Bc1d2
|
13 00:26 1.968.796 76.198 0.00 Bc1d2 Be7b4 Bd2xb4 Qb6xb4 Ra1c1 Ra8b8 b2b3 b7b6 Qc2c7 Qb4xb3
13 00:30 1.968.796 76.198 +0.03 b2b4
13 00:46 3.371.093 74.480 +0.07 b2b4 a5xb4 Bd3h7+ Kg8h8 Qc2g6 Rf8d8 Bc1xh6 g7xh6 Qg6xh6 Qb6e3 Qh6xe3 Kh8xh7 Nf3g5+ Kh7g8
13 00:52 3.371.093 74.480 +0.10 Bc1xh6
13 00:57 3.371.093 74.480 +0.21 Bc1xh6
13 01:05 4.729.994 74.705 +0.21 Bc1xh6 g7xh6 Bd3h7+ Kg8h8 Qc2g6 Qb6xb2+ Kg2h1 Nd7f6 Nf3g5 Bc8d7 Bh7g8 Qb2xe5 Qg6xh6+ Kh8xg8
14 01:26 6.300.242 74.715 +0.21 Bc1xh6 g7xh6 Bd3h7+ Kg8h8 Qc2g6 Qb6xb2+ Kg2h1 Nd7f6 Nf3g5 Bc8d7 Bh7g8 Qb2xe5 Qg6xh6+ Kh8xg8
15 02:22 10.393.316 75.018 +0.21 Bc1xh6 g7xh6 Bd3h7+ Kg8h8 Qc2g6 Qb6xb2+ Kg2h1 Nd7f6 Nf3g5 Bc8d7 Bh7g8 Qb2xe5 Qg6xh6+ Kh8xg8
16 04:37 20.446.062 75.619 +0.21 Bc1xh6 g7xh6 Bd3h7+ Kg8h8 Qc2g6 Qb6xb2+ Kg2h1 Nd7f6 Nf3g5 Bc8d7 Bh7g8 Qb2xe5 Qg6xh6+ Kh8xg8
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Ovyron
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Re: White to Play and Win

Post by Ovyron »

This is the reason Rybka Winfinder isn't yet obsolete, Rybka Dynamic, the version that is supposed to find sacrifices faster is blind, and I have yet to figure out how to use the FindWin feature.
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tjfroh
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Re: White to Play and Win

Post by tjfroh »

Terry,

It takes Deep Rybka 3 25 seconds to see the winning move Bxh6. It then finds a better route by checking the black king with Bh7+ after 86 seconds.

Tj
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Terry McCracken
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Re: White to Play and Win

Post by Terry McCracken »

tjfroh wrote:Terry,

It takes Deep Rybka 3 25 seconds to see the winning move Bxh6. It then finds a better route by checking the black king with Bh7+ after 86 seconds.

Tj
Checking h7 isn't a better move. I doubt any computer/software combo can find 19. Bxh6!! with a positive winning score.
PauloSoare
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Re: White to Play and Win

Post by PauloSoare »

Terry McCracken wrote:
tjfroh wrote:Terry,

It takes Deep Rybka 3 25 seconds to see the winning move Bxh6. It then finds a better route by checking the black king with Bh7+ after 86 seconds.

Tj
Checking h7 isn't a better move. I doubt any computer/software combo can find 19. Bxh6!! with a positive winning score.
Terry, Q6600, HT=2048, Chessbase gui


New game
r1b2rk1/1p1nb1p1/1q2p2p/p2pP3/P7/3B1NP1/1PQ3KP/R1B2R2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Rybka 3:

1.Bc1-d2 Qb6-c5 2.Bd3-h7+
=/+ (-0.39) Depth: 6 00:00:00 9kN
1.Bd3-b5 Rf8-f7 2.Bc1-f4
=/+ (-0.37) Depth: 6 00:00:00 17kN
1.Bd3-b5 Rf8-f7 2.Bc1-f4 Qb6-c5 3.Qc2-d2
=/+ (-0.38) Depth: 7 00:00:00 23kN
1.Bd3-b5 Rf8-f5 2.Bb5-d3 Rf5-f7
=/+ (-0.48) Depth: 8 00:00:00 51kN
1.Bd3-b5 Rf8-f5 2.Bc1-d2 Qb6-c5 3.Qc2-d3 Qc5-a7
=/+ (-0.35) Depth: 9 00:00:00 91kN
1.Bd3-b5 Rf8-f5 2.Bc1-d2 Be7-c5 3.Bb5-d3 Rf5-f8 4.Ra1-c1 Bc5-e3
=/+ (-0.32) Depth: 10 00:00:01 161kN
1.Bc1-d2
= (-0.15 !) Depth: 10 00:00:02 260kN
1.Bc1-d2 Be7-b4 2.Bd2xb4 Qb6xb4 3.Ra1-c1 Ra8-b8 4.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8 5.Bh7-d3 b7-b6
= (-0.21) Depth: 10 00:00:02 416kN
1.Bc1-d2 Be7-b4 2.Bd2-c3 Bb4xc3 3.b2xc3 Qb6-d8 4.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8
= (-0.24) Depth: 11 00:00:03 584kN
1.Bc1-d2 Be7-b4 2.Bd2-c3 Bb4xc3 3.b2xc3 Qb6-c5 4.Ra1-e1 b7-b6 5.Nf3-d4 Rf8xf1 6.Kg2xf1 Qc5-e7
=/+ (-0.27) Depth: 12 00:00:04 793kN
1.Bc1-d2 Rf8xf3 2.Rf1xf3[] Nd7xe5 3.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8 4.Rf3-b3 Be7-b4 5.Bd2xb4 a5xb4 6.Ra1-e1 Ne5-g4
=/+ (-0.39) Depth: 13 00:00:16 3096kN
1.Bd3-b5
= (-0.07 !) Depth: 13 00:00:20 3706kN
1.Bd3-b5 Rf8-f5 2.Bc1-d2 Be7-b4 3.Bb5-d3 Rf5-f8 4.Bd2xb4
=/+ (-0.27) Depth: 13 00:00:22 3970kN
1.Bc1xh6 g7xh6[] 2.Bd3-h7+
= (0.00) Depth: 13 00:00:27 4802kN
1.Bc1xh6
= (0.20 !) Depth: 14 00:00:44 7022kN
1.Bc1xh6
+/= (0.40 !) Depth: 14 00:00:54 8188kN
1.Bc1xh6
+/- (0.80 !) Depth: 14 00:01:12 10723kN
1.Bc1xh6
+- (1.60 !) Depth: 14 00:01:55 17297kN
1.Bc1xh6 Rf8-f5 2.Bd3xf5[] e6xf5 3.Bh6-g5 Be7-c5 4.Qc2xf5 Nd7-f8 5.Qf5-d3 d5-d4 6.Bg5-d2 Bc8-d7 7.Ra1-c1 Nf8-e6
+- (2.16) Depth: 14 00:03:10 29976kN
1.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8[] 2.Bc1xh6[] Rf8-f5 3.Bh7xf5[] e6xf5 4.Bh6-g5 Be7-c5 5.Ra1-c1
+- (2.55) Depth: 14 00:03:11 30089kN

1.Bd3-h7+ +- (2.75 !) Depth: 15 00:03:51 37184kN1.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8[] 2.Bc1xh6[] Rf8-f5 3.Bh7xf5[] e6xf5 4.Bh6-g5 Be7-c5 5.Ra1-c1 Qb6-e6 6.Bg5-d2 Bc5-e7 7.Qc2-c7 Kh8-g8 8.Bd2-g5 Be7-b4[] 9.Qc7-d8+ Nd7-f8[] 10.Rf1-d1 Qe6-a6[] 11.Qd8xd5+ Bc8-e6[] 12.Qd5-d3 Be6-d7[] 13.Qd3xa6 Ra8xa6[] 14.b2-b3 Bd7-c6[] 15.Bg5-d2
+- (2.68) Depth: 15 00:04:05 39828kN
1.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8[] 2.Bc1xh6[] Rf8-f5 3.Bh7xf5[] e6xf5 4.Bh6-g5 Be7-c5 5.Ra1-c1 Qb6-e6 6.Bg5-d2 Bc5-e7 7.Qc2-c7 Kh8-g8 8.Bd2-g5 Be7-b4[] 9.Qc7-d8+ Nd7-f8[] 10.Rf1-d1 Qe6-a6[] 11.Qd8xd5+ Bc8-e6[] 12.Qd5-d3 Be6-d7[] 13.Qd3xa6 Ra8xa6[] 14.b2-b3 Bd7-c6[] 15.Bg5-d2
+- (2.68) Depth: 16 00:04:36 45053kN
1.Bd3-h7+ Kg8-h8[] 2.Bc1xh6[] Rf8-f5 3.Bh7xf5[] e6xf5 4.Bh6-g5 Be7-c5 5.Ra1-c1 Qb6-e6 6.Bg5-d2 Bc5-e7 7.Qc2-c7 Kh8-g8 8.Bd2-g5 Be7-b4[] 9.Qc7-d8+ Nd7-f8[] 10.Rf1-d1 Qe6-a6[] 11.Qd8xd5+ Bc8-e6[] 12.Qd5-d3 Be6-d7[] 13.Qd3xa6 Ra8xa6[] 14.b2-b3 Bd7-c6[] 15.Bg5-d2
+- (2.68) Depth: 17 00:05:43 56229kN

(Paulo, Internet 12.10.2008)
Cubeman
Posts: 644
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Re: White to Play and Win

Post by Cubeman »

PocketFritz3 loaded with Hiarcs 12.1 also likes the Bh7+ first and gives a score of +3.28 at D=16.Here is line
1.Bh7+ Kh8 2.Bxh6 Rf5 3.Bxf5 exf5 4.Bg5 Bxg5 5.Nxg5 Nf8 6.Nf7+ Kg8 7.Nd6 Bd7 8.Nxf5.
Why is Bxh6 first meant to be so much better?
PauloSoare
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Location: Cabo Frio, Brasil

Re: White to Play and Win

Post by PauloSoare »

It´s not better, we have transposition of moves.

Paulo Soares
Cubeman
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Location: New Zealand

Re: White to Play and Win

Post by Cubeman »

PauloSoare wrote:It´s not better, we have transposition of moves.

Paulo Soares
There is a difference.
Bh7+ first gives a better variation, it only transposes if Black decides to accept the Bishop with an immediate gxh6 in both lines.
But both lines of either acceptance or decline with Rf5 still lead to a clearly worse game for Black so it is only a matter of taste which is better Bh7+ or Bxh6 first.