First impressions of Deep Fritz 11 anyone care to comment?

[bigo]

Does Deep Fritz 11 live up to what most expected? A huge leap in playing strength? Several people also commented that they wouldn't buy Deep Fritz 11 if it had the same boring style as Fritz 11, for those who have the program anyone care to comment? I don't have the program but i've noticed on cegt that it is very close to rybka2.3.2a MP on Dual core machines. In my opinion the Fritz team deserve huge congradulations and credit. I suppose another match with Kramnik would be a waste of time as he couldn't possibly compete with this new program which is much stronger then Deep Fritz 10.

[Vinvin]

Does Deep Fritz 11 live up to what most expected?

I don't know what the most expected but if it was to cope with the top, it's clearly missed.

A huge leap in playing strength?

On a single core, it's a bit stronger than fritz 11 (out in 19.11.2007, 1 yeard old !). But no reliable rating now. Chessbase only show it finds a move in 19 sec compare to 25 for F11 ( http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5027).
With multi-cores, it followed the general rule : about 3 times faster on 4 cores ...

Several people also commented that they wouldn't buy Deep Fritz 11 if it had the same boring style as Fritz 11, for those who have the program anyone care to comment?

The style seems to be very very close.

I don't have the program but i've noticed on cegt that it is very close to rybka2.3.2a MP on Dual core machines.

DF11 is about 40 points below R3 on a same hardware ...

CCRL 40/40
Rybka 2.3.2a 64-bit 4CPU 3127
Deep Fritz 11 4CPU 3084

CEGT 40/20
5 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 4CPU 3080
8 Deep Fritz 11 4CPU 3036

CEGT 4/40
8 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 4CPU 3105
10 Deep Fritz 11 4CPU 3077

In my opinion the Fritz team deserve huge congradulations and credit.

My opinion is the Fritz team deserve no congradulations at all. Here, I'd give new congradulations to Vasik to be so higher than other engines (150 over DF 11 !). Naum 4 will be out in about 2 weeks and it's annouced to be about 65 pts over DF11. Rybka and Fritz programmers are the only 2 professionnal chess engines programmers, I think.

I suppose another match with Kramnik would be a waste of time as he couldn't possibly compete with this new program which is much stronger then Deep Fritz 10.

Why match DF11 instead of Rybka 3 ?? I don't know.
I very like one the latest Rybka match against a GM ... 10 more time to the GM and "no ponder" for Rybka : GM Eugene Perelshteyn : 90'+30" vs Rybka plays 9'+3"

Some will think I'm rude for DF11, but I'm think I'm realistic.

Vincent

[kgburcham]

Veselin Topalov - Vassily Ivanchuk, Bilbao Grand Slam Chess Final 2008
[d] 3r1bk1/3P2p1/6Bp/pp6/5r2/P6P/6P1/2RR3K b - - 0 1

Fritz 11
25 seconds
single core

Deep Fritz 11
19 seconds
single core

Deep Fritz 1
27 seconds
four cores

37...Rc4!
= (0.25) Depth: 16/35 00:00:27 136mN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 b4 39.axb4 axb4 40.g3 Rc7 41.Be8 Rc2 42.Rbc1 Rxc1 43.Rxc1
= (0.22) Depth: 17/35 00:00:57 293mN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 b4 39.axb4 axb4 40.g3 Rc7 41.Be8 g5 42.Kg2 Rc3 43.Rbc1
+/= (0.28) Depth: 18/39 00:02:19 728mN

[Ovyron]

I don't know what the most expected but if it was to cope with the top, it's clearly missed.

If you define "the top" as "Rybka", then beating it was unrealistic unless they found something revolutionary and that's not easy. A different definition of top may take into account that DF11 seems stronger than Naum 3.1 and Zappa Mexico II, and that's a really good achievement (If Rybka didn't exist DF11 would be the best we had.)

[Vinvin]

I don't have the program but i've noticed on cegt that it is very close to rybka2.3.2a MP on Dual core machines.

DF11 is about 40 points below R3 on a same hardware ...

CCRL 40/40
Rybka 2.3.2a 64-bit 4CPU 3127
Deep Fritz 11 4CPU 3084

CEGT 40/20
5 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 4CPU 3080
8 Deep Fritz 11 4CPU 3036

CEGT 4/40
8 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 4CPU 3105
10 Deep Fritz 11 4CPU 3077

Oops ! I mean :
DF11 is about 40 points below _Rybka2.3.2a MP_ on a same hardware !!

[beachknight]

Veselin Topalov - Vassily Ivanchuk, Bilbao Grand Slam Chess Final 2008
[d] 3r1bk1/3P2p1/6Bp/pp6/5r2/P6P/6P1/2RR3K b - - 0 1

Fritz 11
25 seconds
single core

Deep Fritz 11
19 seconds
single core

Deep Fritz 1
27 seconds
four cores

37...Rc4!
= (0.25) Depth: 16/35 00:00:27 136mN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 b4 39.axb4 axb4 40.g3 Rc7 41.Be8 Rc2 42.Rbc1 Rxc1 43.Rxc1
= (0.22) Depth: 17/35 00:00:57 293mN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 b4 39.axb4 axb4 40.g3 Rc7 41.Be8 g5 42.Kg2 Rc3 43.Rbc1
+/= (0.28) Depth: 18/39 00:02:19 728mN

On my quad:

Fritz 11
29 seconds
single core

Deep Fritz 11
17 seconds
four cores

Best,

[beachknight]

Just tried DF10.

29: [d]3r1bk1/3P2p1/6Bp/pp6/5r2/P, Chess Olympiad 2008 2008
3r1bk1/3P2p1/6Bp/pp6/5r2/P6P/6P1/2RR3K b - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz 10:

37...Bxa3 38.Rc8 Rff8 39.Be8 Be7 40.Rd5 Rf1+ 41.Kh2 Ra1 42.Rxb5 Ra2 43.Bg6
+/- (0.79) Depth: 12/40 00:00:00 2132kN
37...Rc4
+/- (0.78) Depth: 12/40 00:00:00 2648kN
37...Rc4
+/= (0.62) Depth: 12/40 00:00:00 2804kN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 Rc7 39.Bf5 Bxa3 40.Rxb5 Rc5 41.Rxc5 Bxc5 42.Rd5 Bb6 43.Be6+ Kf8 44.Rf5+ Ke7 45.Re5
+/= (0.56) Depth: 13/26 00:00:00 4622kN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 Rc7 39.Be8 b4 40.axb4 axb4 41.Rd2 Rc3 42.Rf1 Bc5 43.Bg6 b3
+/= (0.50) Depth: 14/30 00:00:01 7789kN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 Rc7 39.Be8 b4 40.axb4 axb4 41.Rb2 Bc5 42.g4 Rc6 43.Kg2 Rd6 44.Rxd6 Bxd6 45.Kf3 Kf8
+/= (0.50) Depth: 15/31 00:00:01 12417kN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 Rc7 39.Be8 b4 40.axb4 axb4 41.Rb2 g5 42.g4 Rc3 43.Kg2 b3 44.Bg6 Bc5 45.Re2 Be3
+/= (0.46) Depth: 16/33 00:00:03 24874kN
37...Rc4 38.Rb1 Rc7 39.Be8 b4 40.axb4 axb4 41.Rb2 g5 42.g4 Rc3 43.Kg2 b3 44.Bg6 Kg7 45.Be4 Kf6 46.Re2
+/= (0.49) Depth: 17/34 00:00:05 38160kN

(, chessengines20 30.11.2008 )




Best,

[Vinvin]

If you define "the top" as "Rybka", then beating it was unrealistic

I think this statement is wrong, simply because Vasik is not a magician ! (or is he ???? )

[Nimzovik]

Not buying Deep Fritz 11 I shall............Future of chess base thier server is.......... Improvements there is expected think I do.........Choices few they have.....weak is thier force of D F 11 is.....Market value speak I of..........

[S.Taylor]

Vincent, Deep Fritz company might have put in alot of work, AND it might have some exclusive great features.
The question is, how many people might feel they were ripped off by the price. However, many (non-rich people) might think they were NOT ripped off, due to many great features which they like alot.
Are there any people to speak up about that?