Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by kgburcham »

Bf6
[d] r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - -
User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4671
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   Eelco de Groot

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by Eelco de Groot »

kgburcham wrote:Bf6
[d] r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - -
This seems to be a pretty difficult problem, the new 'transparent' King Safety does not help very much at least not to find 1.Bf6.

Engine: Blueberry Beta 4 DM70 Build 188 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by F. Letouzey, T. Gaksch, E. de Groot

11/38 0:09 +1.67 1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 f6 3.Be3 Bxb4 4.Rbxb4 Rfd8
5.Rb1 Rac8 6.f4 e5 7.fxe5 fxe5 (5.812.305) 600

12/52 0:32 +1.34 1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Be7 Rfe8 4.Rbc1 b5
5.Rc6 Bb6 6.Qxe4 Rxe7 7.Rxe6 fxe6
8.Qxa8+ Kf7 9.Qc6 Qxa2 10.Qf3+ Kg6
11.Qg4+ Kf7 12.Qf4+ Kg6 (21.629.874) 674

12/52 0:49 +1.68 1.Qf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 e5 4.Qc1 Rf7
5.h4 Rd8 6.Qc2 Rfd7 7.Rb1 Rf7 8.Kh2 Rfd7
9.Rg4 (31.553.696) 644

13/52 1:01 +1.70 1.Qf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 e5 4.Qc1 Rf7
5.h4 Rd8 6.Qc2 Qb7 7.Rb1 Rfd7 8.Rg4 Rc8 (39.517.370) 642

14/52 1:46 +1.70 1.Qf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 e5 4.Qc1 Rf7
5.h4 Rd8 6.Qc2 b5 7.Rc6 Qb7 8.h5 (67.952.112) 636

15/52 3:01 +1.73 1.Qf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 e5 4.Qc1 Rf7
5.h4 Rd8 6.Qc2 b5 7.Rc6 Qb7 8.a4 b4
9.h5 (114.804.601) 634

16/59 9:32 +1.68 1.Qf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 e5 4.Qc1 Rad8
5.Qc2 Rc8 6.Rb5 Rxc4 7.Qxc4+ Kh8
8.Qd5 Rg8 9.h3 g5 10.Kh1 Rc8 (364.477.934) 636

17/59 19:57 +1.75 1.Qf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 e5 4.Qc1 Rab8
5.Qc2 Rbc8 6.Rb5 Rxc4 7.Qxc4+ Kh8
8.Qd5 Bc3 9.Rb1 g5 10.Qd6 Kg8 (748.990.140) 625

Not found. After entering 1. Bf6 and with this result in the transposition tables to help, although it is not always clear how much remains saved, sometimes the previous results seem to get overwritten I think, Blueberry gives:

1. Bf6

[d]r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2pB2/b7/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 b - -

Engine: Blueberry Beta 4 DM70 Build 188 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by F. Letouzey, T. Gaksch, E. de Groot

10 0:25 0.00 1...Rfc8 2.Rxc8+ Qxc8 3.Bd4 b5 4.Qxb5 Qc2 5.Ra1 Bb6 6.Bxb6 axb6 7.b3 Nc3 8.Qxb6 Nxa2 (16.229.127) 625
10 0:26 -3.18 1...Nc5 2.Ne5 Qb7 3.Qg4 g6 4.b4 h5 5.Qf4 Bxb4 6.Rbxb4 Rac8 (16.786.388) 625
10 0:52 -3.36 1...Bc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qe5 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4 5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qe4 Re8 7.Qc6 Rc8 8.Rd1 (33.131.755) 625
10 0:54 -3.59 1...Nc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qd2 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4 5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qa4 Qd3 7.Rd1 Qf5 8.Be5 (34.290.832) 625

_____________________________________________________________

11 1:00 -1.04 1...Rfc8 2.Qe3 Qb5 3.Rxa4 Qf5 4.Re4 Qxf6 5.b4 Rc3 6.Qe2 Bxb4 7.Rexb4 Rac8 8.Qb2 e5 9.Rd1 (37.819.036) 624
11 1:21 -2.23 1...Nc5 2.Ne5 gxf6 3.Qg4+ Kh8 4.Qh4 Nd7 5.Nxd7 Rg8 6.Qxf6+ Rg7 7.Rg4 Rag8 8.Ne5 Qb7 9.b4 h5 10.Qh6+ Rh7 11.Rxg8+ Kxg8 (50.456.627) 624
11 1:21 -3.36 1...Bc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qe5 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4 5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qe4 Re8 7.Qc6 Rc8 8.Rd1 Nc5 (50.599.686) 624
11 1:29 -3.59 1...Nc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qd2 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4 5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qa4 Qd3 7.Rd1 Qf5 8.Be5 (55.768.245) 624

_____________________________________________________________

12 2:02 -1.13 1...Rfc8 2.Qe3 Qb5 3.Rxa4 Qf5 4.Re4 Qxf6 5.b4 Rc3 6.Qe1 Bxb4 7.Rbxb4 Rac8 8.Rf4 Qg6 9.Rg4 Rc1 10.Rxg6 Rxe1+ 11.Nxe1 hxg6 12.Nd3 (76.184.230) 611
12 2:17 -2.47 1...Nc5 2.Ne5 gxf6 3.Qg4+ Kh8 4.Qh4 Nd7 5.Nxd7 Rg8 6.Nxf6 Rg7 7.Rd1 b5 8.Rg4 Qc8 9.Qh6 Qf8 10.Rd7 (85.168.622) 611
12 2:54 -3.40 1...Bc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Ng5 gxf6 4.Qe4 fxg5 5.Rxa4 Qxa4 6.Qxa4 Rxc3 7.h4 gxh4 8.Rd1 Rac8 9.Qxh4 Rc2 10.Rd7 Rc1+ 11.Kh2 (108.747.893) 611
12 4:49 -3.85 1...Nc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qd2 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4 5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qd4 Qb7 7.Qf4 Qb8 8.Qe4 Qe8 9.Rd1 Rc8 (177.260.662) 611

____________________________________________________________


13 5:54 0.00 1...Rfc8 2.Rxc8+ Qxc8 3.Bd4 Bb4
4.Qe4 Nc5 5.Qf4 Nd3 6.Qe4 Nc5 (218.005.589) 622

13 7:47 -3.29 1...Bc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Ng5 gxf6 4.Qe4 fxg5
5.Rxa4 Qxa4 6.Qxa4 Rxc3 7.h4 gxh4
8.Qxh4 Rac8 9.Rd1 Rc2 10.Rd7 (290.665.027) 622

13 7:25 -3.51 1...Nc5 2.Ne5 b5 3.Qg4 g6 4.Rxc5 Bb6
5.Rcc1 Bd8 6.Qf3 Qxa2 7.Ng4 Bxf6
8.Qxf6 h5 9.Nh6+ Kh7 10.Nxf7 a5
11.Rc4 (276.639.315) 622

13 9:46 -3.85 1...Nc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qd2 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4
5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qd4 Qb7 7.Qf4 Qb8 8.Qe4 Qe8
9.Rd1 Rc8 (365.220.896) 622

_____________________________________________________________

14 14:24 -2.30 1...Rfc8 2.Qe5 Rc5 3.Rxc5 gxf6
4.Qg3+ Kh8 5.Rc7 Qd3 6.Rbc1 Qg6 7.b3 Nc5
8.Rxa7 Rxa7 9.Qb8+ Kg7 10.Qxa7 e5
11.Kh1 (543.934.469) 612


14 15:59 -3.40 1...Bc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Ng5 gxf6 4.Qe4 fxg5
5.Rxa4 Qxa4 6.Qxa4 Rxc3 7.h4 gxh4
8.Qxh4 Rac8 9.Rd1 R3c5 10.Rd7 Rc1+
11.Kh2 (601.088.624) 612

14 21:26 -3.49 1...Nc5 2.Ne5 Rad8 3.Bxd8 Rxd8 4.b4 Bxb4
5.Nxf7 Kxf7 6.Qh5+ Kg8 7.Qg5 Qxc4
8.Qxd8+ Kf7 9.Qc7+ Kg8 10.Qb8+ Kf7
11.Qxa7+ Ke8 12.a3 h5 13.Qxb6 Bxa3
14.Qb8+ Ke7 (787.820.038) 612

14 22:10 -3.85 1...Nc3 2.bxc3 Rfc8 3.Qd2 Rxc4 4.Qg5 Rg4
5.Qxg4 g6 6.Qd4 Qb7 7.Qf4 Qb8 8.Qe4 Qe8
9.Rd1 Rc8 (814.038.056) 612

_____________________________________________________________

15 27:20 -3.08 1...Rfc8 2.Qe5 Bb4 3.Rxb4 Qd3 4.Re1 Qg6
5.Be7 Nc5 6.Qe3 Nd3 7.Nh4 Nxe1
8.Nxg6 Nd3 9.Ra4 Rc1+ 10.Qxc1 Nxc1
11.Nf4 a5 (1.001.346.198) 609


15 30:58 -5.83 1...Bc3 2.bxc3 Qa5 3.Rg4 g6 4.Rbb4 Nxc3
5.Bxc3 Rac8 6.Rbc4 Qb5 7.h4 Rxc4
8.Rxc4 Rd8 9.Be5 Qb1+ 10.Ne1 b5
11.Rc7 (1.132.912.813) 609



This would probably be enough to switch to 1. Bf6

Eelco
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
User avatar
beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by beachknight »

39: r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N - Deep Fritz 11
r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz 11:

1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Be7 Rfe8 4.Rc7 Qxe2 5.Nxe2 Nd2 6.Rb2 Rxe7 7.Rxe7 Nc4 8.Rb3 Nd2 9.bxa5
+- (2.15) Depth: 21/40 00:00:42 324mN
1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Be7 Rfe8 4.Rc7 Qxe2 5.Nxe2 Nd2 6.Rb2 Rxe7 7.Rxe7 Nc4 8.Rb3 Nd2
+- (2.10) Depth: 22/39 00:01:27 675mN

(, chessengines20 29.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
User avatar
beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by beachknight »

39: r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N - Deep Fritz 11
r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Naum 4:

1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Be7 Rfe8 4.Rc7 Qxe2 5.Nxe2 Nd2 6.Rb2 Rxe7 7.Rxe7 Nc4 8.Rb3 Nd2 9.bxa5 Nxb3 10.axb3
+- (1.96) Depth: 19/41 00:00:23 87616kN
1.Bf6 Rfc8 2.Qe5 Rc5 3.Qg3 g6 4.Qh4 h5 5.Rxa4 Rac8 6.h3 b5 7.Ra3 b4 8.Qxb4 Qd6 9.Rxa5 Rc1+ 10.Qe1
+- (2.76) Depth: 19/56 00:02:21 513mN

(, chessengines20 29.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
User avatar
beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by beachknight »

39: r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N - Deep Fritz 11
r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3:

1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4[] Ne4 3.Nxe6 Nxg5 4.Nxf8 Rxf8 5.bxa5 Qxa5 6.Rbc1 Ne6 7.Rc8 h6 8.Rxf8+ Nxf8 9.g3 Qf5 10.Rc7 a5 11.Qc2
+/- (1.29) Depth: 15 00:00:11 2324kN
1.Bf6
+/- (1.39 !) Depth: 15 00:00:18 3485kN
1.Bf6
+- (1.59 !) Depth: 15 00:00:21 3829kN
1.Bf6
+- (1.99 !) Depth: 15 00:00:28 4991kN
1.Bf6
+- (2.79 !) Depth: 15 00:00:47 8475kN

(, chessengines20 29.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
User avatar
beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by beachknight »

39: r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N - Deep Fritz 11
r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Zappa Mexico II:

1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Bf4 Rad8 4.Qc2 b5 5.Rc6 Bb6 6.Qxe4 Qxa2 7.Ne2 Qd5 8.Qc2 e5 9.Bg3 f6
+- (1.56) Depth: 15/41 00:00:23 53365kN
1.Bf6 Rfc8 2.Qe5 Rc5 3.Qg3 g6 4.Rxa4 Rac8 5.Rd4 Rc1+ 6.Rd1 Rxb1 7.Rxb1 Bb4 8.a3 Qd3
+- (2.50) Depth: 15/49 00:01:00 142mN
1.Bf6 Rfc8 2.Qe5 Rc5 3.Qg3 g6 4.Rxa4 Rac8 5.Rd4 Rc1+ 6.Rd1 Rxb1 7.Rxb1 Bb4 8.a3 Qd3
+- (2.50) Depth: 15/49 00:01:00 143mN

(, chessengines20 29.12.2008)
hi, merhaba, hallo HT
perejaslav
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:01 am
Location: Cold

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by perejaslav »

New game
r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz 10:

1.Bf6
+- (1.75) Depth: 15/33 00:00:03 32597kN
1.Bf6
+- (1.90) Depth: 15/33 00:00:04 35414kN
1.Bf6 Nc5 2.Ne5 gxf6 3.Rg4+ Kh8 4.Qf3 Nd7
+- (1.95) Depth: 15/33 00:00:04 38092kN
1.Bf6
+- (2.23) Depth: 16/33 00:00:06 59795kN
1.Bf6
+- (2.51) Depth: 16/37 00:00:08 74661kN
1.Bf6 Rfc8 2.Qe5 Rc5 3.Qg3 g6 4.Rxa4 Rac8 5.Rd4 Qe2 6.Rdd1 h6 7.Nd4 Qc4 8.Qh4 Kh7
+- (2.86) Depth: 16/37 00:00:12 112mN
1.Bf6 Rfc8 2.Qe5 Rc5 3.Qg3 g6 4.Rxa4 Rac8 5.Rd4 b5 6.a3 Bb6 7.Rdd1 Rc4 8.Nd4 Bc7 9.Be5
+- (2.78) Depth: 17/39 00:00:18 169mN

Very easy problem for Deep Fritz 10
User avatar
michiguel
Posts: 6401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by michiguel »

kgburcham wrote:Bf6
[d] r4rk1/p4ppp/qp2p3/b5B1/n1R5/5N2/PP2QPPP/1R4K1 w - -
This position has a problem: There are other winning moves. For instance, Kf1 wins a piece, and I think that Qf1 does too. Bf6 is the best path to victory, but not the only one. My poor Gaviota struggled for 14 hours to prefer Bf6 over Kf1.

Miguel

Code: Select all

    322842   7:      1.4    +0.14  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 e5 3.Rxc5 Qxe2 4.Nxe2
                                   bxc5 5.bxa5
    426660   8       1.7    +0.37  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 e5 3.Nc6 Ne6 4.b5 Qb7
                                   5.Nxa5 bxa5 6.Qxe5 Nxg5 7.Qxg5
    664919   8:      2.4    +0.37  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 e5 3.Nc6 Ne6 4.b5 Qb7
                                   5.Nxa5 bxa5 6.Qxe5 Nxg5 7.Qxg5
    949061   9       3.3    +0.37  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 e5 3.Nc6 Ne6 4.b5 Qb7
                                   5.Nxa5 bxa5 6.Qxe5 Nxg5 7.Qxg5
   2244989   9:      7.0    +0.37  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 e5 3.Nc6 Ne6 4.b5 Qb7
                                   5.Nxa5 bxa5 6.Qxe5 Nxg5 7.Qxg5
   3722021  10      11.4    +0.70  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Nxe6 Nd6 4.b5 Qb7
                                   5.Rc7 Qb8
   9382356  10:     27.0    +0.70  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 Ne4 3.Nxe6 Nd6 4.b5 Qb7
                                   5.Rc7 Qb8
  11660989  11      33.5      :-)  1.Nd4
  14265103  11      41.2    +1.14  1.Nd4 Nc5 2.b4 e5 3.Nf5 Ne6 4.Be7 b5
                                   5.Re4 Bc7 6.Bxf8 Rxf8
  30525515  11      90.5    +1.29  1.Kf1 f6 2.Be3 Qb5 3.b4 e5 4.Rb3 e4
                                   5.Nd4 Qd5 6.bxa5 Qxa5
  36983909  11:    109.1    +1.29  1.Kf1 f6 2.Be3 Qb5 3.b4 e5 4.Rb3 e4
                                   5.Nd4 Qd5 6.bxa5 Qxa5
  70216798  12     205.9    +1.42  1.Kf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 Rad8 4.Rc1
                                   Qxe2+ 5.Kxe2 e5 6.Rc7 Rf7 7.Rxf7 Kxf7
 134290127  12:    378.6    +1.42  1.Kf1 f6 2.Be3 Nxb2 3.Rxb2 Rad8 4.Rc1
                                   Qxe2+ 5.Kxe2 e5 6.Rc7 Rf7 7.Rxf7 Kxf7
 203184824  13     581.3    +1.40  1.Kf1 Nc5 2.b4 Bxb4 3.Rbxb4 Rac8 4.Be7
                                   Rfe8 5.Bxc5 bxc5 6.Ra4 Qb7 7.Kg1
 428155616  13:   1199.1    +1.40  1.Kf1 Nc5 2.b4 Bxb4 3.Rbxb4 Rac8 4.Be7
                                   Rfe8 5.Bxc5 bxc5 6.Ra4 Qb7 7.Kg1
 789972431  14    2155.3    +1.45  1.Kf1 Nxb2 2.Rxb2 Qb7 3.Kg1 h6 4.Bd2
                                   Bxd2 5.Rxd2 Qe7 6.Qe5 Rfc8 7.Rdc2 Rxc4
                                   8.Rxc4
2454228273  14:   6874.4    +1.45  1.Kf1 Nxb2 2.Rxb2 Qb7 3.Kg1 h6 4.Bd2
                                   Bxd2 5.Rxd2 Qe7 6.Qe5 Rfc8 7.Rdc2 Rxc4
                                   8.Rxc4
3138760638  15    8786.4    +1.43  1.Kf1 Nxb2 2.Rxb2 Qb7 3.Rbc2 b5 4.Rg4
                                   Kh8 5.Qe4 Qd7 6.Qd4 Qxd4 7.Rxd4 f6
                                   8.Bf4
16695738146  15   49971.9      :-)  1.Bf6

Cubeman
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:11 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by Cubeman »

I think I have seen this position before.Was the White pieces Alekhine?
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12792
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Test position---Super GM must use a program to solve

Post by Dann Corbit »

Cubeman wrote:I think I have seen this position before.Was the White pieces Alekhine?

Code: Select all

[Event "It"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1921.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Alekhine, Alexander"]
[Black "Sterk, Karoly"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45j"]
[Variation "Semi-Slav: 6.Qc2 Be7"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 Nbd7 5. e3 Bd6 6. Nb5 Be7 7. Qc2 c6 8.
Nc3 O-O 9. Bd3 dxc4 10. Bxc4 c5 11. dxc5 Bxc5 12. O-O b6 13. e4 Bb7 14. Bg5
Qc8 15. Qe2 Bb4 16. Bd3 Bxc3 17. Rfc1 Nxe4 18. Bxe4 Bxe4 19. Qxe4 Nc5 20.
Qe2 Ba5 21. Rab1 Qa6 22. Rc4 Na4 23. Bf6 Rfc8 24. Qe5 Rc5 25. Qg3 g6 26.
Rxa4 Qd3 27. Rf1 Rac8 28. Rd4 Qf5 29. Qf4 Qc2 30. Qh6 1-0