Crunch This!

[Terry McCracken]

Can you give this concrete line that wins by force. I seem to have a very active black rook with plenty of defensive resources that can turn the tables if not careful. If rooks can be exchanged and queens are off then this is very quickly a draw.

[d]r4bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/1b1pP1B1/5P2/2P1N1K1/6P1/8 b - - 0 55

Let's play it out and see if you can make that draw.

I say you can't no matter what hardware you use.

[PauloSoare]

The position is most likely a draw. I keep ending up with a much better white position but with opposite bishops ... the black king can be totally blocked in and passive while white king is active ... yet he cannot take advantage of this activity because black bishop protects the important pawn. I did a Monte Carlo overnight analysis on my Octa and it confirms this. If there is a win, I sure can't find it ... but if it is there it most definetely would have to be refusing to exchange queens or rooks and manouevering with those pieces somehow to get an advantage.

You have to exchange queens (do not exchange the knights!!!). Play Rb7, play Rc7 to secure c3 (maybe not needed), play Nf3-Nh2-Ng4-Nf6+ & Rxf7 or Nc2-Ne3-Ng4-Nf6+ & Rxf7. If black place the bishop on d1 or e2, chase it away with the King. I do not see how black can stop this. Black cannot move much.

This is the typical position where you do not solve it with search, you solve it with a plan based on what you need (the Knight at f6). Sort of a logical retrograde analysis. Long plans are generally beyond the horizon of engines.

Am I missing something? It sounds too easy.

Miguel

I can not keep the rook in the seventh row because it is always attacked
by one of the bishops.

[PauloSoare]

I can not see a win for white. Very hard for me,
and with computer help.

The debate was still running over at chessgames.com as well.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgam ... 44&kpage=1

Thanks, I did not know that people discussed
positions in this link.

[tano-urayoan]

I can not keep the rook in the seventh row because it is always attacked by one of the bishops.

How is attacked in c7?

[PauloSoare]

I can not keep the rook in the seventh row because it is always attacked by one of the bishops.

How is attacked in c7?

You are rigth. In c7 black plays Rc8, with the bishop in a6.
And I think that it´s not good for white to change rooks.

[jwes]

An interesting position comes up after Rb2 Qd7 Qf6 Bb7?!
White to play and win.
[d]r4bk1/1b1q1p1p/4pQpP/3pP1B1/3N1P2/2P5/1R4PK/8 w - - 0 2

[Terry McCracken]

Can you give this concrete line that wins by force. I seem to have a very active black rook with plenty of defensive resources that can turn the tables if not careful. If rooks can be exchanged and queens are off then this is very quickly a draw.

[d]r4bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/1b1pP1B1/5P2/2P1N1K1/6P1/8 b - - 0 55

Let's play it out and see if you can make that draw.

I say you can't no matter what hardware you use.

Let me help you out.

Here's the critical position that arises and Black goes downhill from here.

[d]5bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/3pP1B1/5P2/2P1N3/r3b1P1/4K3 b - - 0 57

[PauloSoare]

Can you give this concrete line that wins by force. I seem to have a very active black rook with plenty of defensive resources that can turn the tables if not careful. If rooks can be exchanged and queens are off then this is very quickly a draw.

[d]r4bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/1b1pP1B1/5P2/2P1N1K1/6P1/8 b - - 0 55

Let's play it out and see if you can make that draw.

I say you can't no matter what hardware you use.

Let me help you out.

Here's the critical position that arises and Black goes downhill from here.

[d]5bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/3pP1B1/5P2/2P1N3/r3b1P1/4K3 b - - 0 57

What are the moves to reached this position?

[M ANSARI]

I can see that it would be great if the Knight can somehow get to f6 but I see a lot of counterplay by black in the meantime. I do not think black should put bishop on b5 much better is on a6 to allow for Rc8 drawing immediately since that would exchange rooks. Can you show the forced line winning with bishop on a6?

[Terry McCracken]

Can you give this concrete line that wins by force. I seem to have a very active black rook with plenty of defensive resources that can turn the tables if not careful. If rooks can be exchanged and queens are off then this is very quickly a draw.

[d]r4bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/1b1pP1B1/5P2/2P1N1K1/6P1/8 b - - 0 55

Let's play it out and see if you can make that draw.

I say you can't no matter what hardware you use.

Let me help you out.

Here's the critical position that arises and Black goes downhill from here.

[d]5bk1/2R2p1p/4p1pP/3pP1B1/5P2/2P1N3/r3b1P1/4K3 b - - 0 57

What are the moves to reached this position?

The game ended on move 55, Black resigned.

This is the next few moves in the position that were never played.

55..Be2 (forced to prevent Ng4!) 56. Kf2..Ra2 57. Ke1! and Black finds himself in Zugzwang!