strong (java) chess engines for mobiles

[mclane]

genius only runs on palm, symbian and windows pocket pcs, right ?
or is there a java version too ?

[mclane]

Programs I tried: ‘Mobile Chess’, ‘Shredder’ and ‘Chess by cellufun’; but they were very weak and from what I have tried any sane program runs on 68K can easily beat them. Probably there exists some others stronger, but I‘m not aware of them.

i doubt that shredder in java on a fast mobile is that weak.

at least it should be able to beat an 8 bit dedicated chess computer on a serious level.

[Mark]

genius only runs on palm, symbian and windows pocket pcs, right ?
or is there a java version too ?

It's also been ported to the iPhone.

[swami]

genius only runs on palm, symbian and windows pocket pcs, right ?
or is there a java version too ?

I don't think it's written in java. What I meant was that it's still the strongest available on mobile platform. You could ask Richard Lang, he'd never fail to answer your query.

This is the old page listing all the mobile programs available at that time:

http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/c ... phones.htm

You could see which ones are written in java.

That site above is quite old and it's not being updated anymore... so there'd probably be more programs available on the market nowadays... you'd have to search via google.

[mclane]

richard lang normally takes care that the engine is programmed very optimal to the CPU that is used.

therefore genius is a fast program on palms, pocket pc's or iphones.

Shredder in the opposite is programmed that it runs on ALL mobiles that have java on and can visibly show the program.

As a java engine shredder for mobile is of course slower. therefore you would need a fast mobile to run it.

My Motorola rokr z6 is 490mhz fast.



that should be enough to give shredder for mobile a usual strength of a dedicated chess computer or even more.

Here the first victim, an 8 bit dedicated chess computer from fidelity,
the Fidelity Designer Display 2000.



you can get information about this dedicated chess computer here:
http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... 00_Display

it was made 1988 and is based on the famous Excellence program from Dan + Kathe Spracklen. It uses the famous 6502 8 Bit-CPU.
Usually it runs on 3 mhz but my machine is slightly overclocked to 5mhz.

Level was level a5 this is 1' per move. The ELO should be ~1760.

the machine plays in my dedicated chess computer tournament

http://schachcomputerwelt.foren-city.de ... orial.html




In shredder 1' average was used.



Btw. i would wish that later shredder versions could offer 3' per move average too.
That would allow me to play 40/120 games.


As far as i could see shredder was not playing with permanent brain while the fidelity machine had permanent brain ON.

Here the game:


[Event "1' per move"]
[Site "SCW"]
[Date "2009.02.28"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Shredder Mot.Rokr z6 490mhz"]
[Black "Fidel. Des. Dis.2000 Lev.5 "]
[ECO "D67"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e3 O-O 6. Nf3
Nbd7 7. Rc1 c6 8. Bd3 dxc4 9. Bxc4 Nd5 10. Bxe7 Qxe7
11. O-O Nxc3 12. Rxc3 b5 13. Bd3 Bb7 14. Be4 b4 15. Rc1
Rfc8 16. Qa4 Nb6 17. Qa5 f5 18. Bd3 Nd5 19. a3 bxa3
20. bxa3 Rf8 21. Ne5 Rfc8 22. Rc5 Qc7 23. Qa4 Nb6 24. Qb3
Nd5 25. Rb1 Rcb8 26. Qa4 Nb6 27. Qa5 Rc8 28. Qb4 Rab8
29. Rcc1 Nd7 30. Bxf5 Nxe5 31. Bxe6+ Nf7 32. Bxc8 Qxc8
33. d5 c5 34. Qxc5 Qxc5 35. Rxc5 Nd6 36. e4 Re8 37. f3 Kf7
38. Ra5 Kf6 39. Rxa7 Re7 40. Rb6 Ke5 41. f4+ Kxe4 42. Rxd6
Rc7 43. Ra4+ Ke3 1-0

the next opponent will be the Mephisto Berlin 68000 with
Motorola 68000 CPU on 12 mhz, 512 KByte hash etc.



http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... rlin_68000

This now a 16-Bit CPU.
this machine has an elo of 2115 !

[Arsha Mahdavi]

Programs I tried: ‘Mobile Chess’, ‘Shredder’ and ‘Chess by cellufun’; but they were very weak and from what I have tried any sane program runs on 68K can easily beat them. Probably there exists some others stronger, but I‘m not aware of them.

i doubt that shredder in java on a fast mobile is that weak.

at least it should be able to beat an 8 bit dedicated chess computer on a serious level.

Hi Thorsten,

You are right. I ran two games between Shredder Mobile and Chess for Sega and after two consecutive wins by Shredder I convinced that 68k is no match for Shredder Mobile. Sega Genesis was a popular video game console from the fourth generation era in the early 90’s. It utilizes 68k as the CPU which is a 16/32-bit CPU runs at 7.6 MHz. For detailed information see the Wikipedia entry.

Chess for Sega is a Russian game that I think was published by NewGame. I wonder if anyone in this forum has any information about this chess game released for Sega Genesis consoles. I also ran a few games between Chess for Sega and Mobile Chess and the Genesis game was able to win all the games. I wonder why this program (Mobile Chess) is that weak while participated in last WCCC.

That Genesis game has 12 levels of difficulty and a typical move on middle game at level 12 takes 5 minutes to calculate, however in end games this takes less than a minute to complete. So I guess the game level has something related to search depth. I installed a Demo version of Shredder Mobile which enabled me to play a blitz game at 60 minutes time control.

Here are that two games:
[Event "New Game"]
[Site "My Site"]
[Date "2009.02.28"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Chess for Sega: Level 12"]
[Black "Shredder Mobile: Blitz 60 min."]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 d6 5. d4 b5 6. Bb3 Nf6 7. dxe5 dxe5 8.
Qxd8+ Nxd8 9. Nxe5 Bd6 10. Bf4 Nh5 11. g3 g5 12. Bd5 gxf4 13. Nxf7 Nxf7 14.
Bxa8 Bd7 15. Nd2 Be5 16. c3 O-O 17. Bb7 a5 18. O-O-O Bg4 19. f3 Be6 20. g4
Nf6 21. Bc6 Rb8 22. a4 b4 23. c4 Kg7 24. b3 Rd8 25. Bd5 Bd7 26. h4 Bd4 27.
Bxf7 Kxf7 28. g5 Nh5 29. Kc2 Ng3 30. Rh2 Be6 31. Nf1 Nxf1 32. Rxf1 Kg6 33.
Rd2 Kh5 34. c5 Kxh4 35. Rfd1 Kg3 36. Rxd4 Rxd4 37. Rxd4 Kxf3 38. c6 Ke3 39.
Rd7 f3 40. Rd1 Kxe4 41. Rd2 Kf4 42. Rf2 Bd5 43. Rh2 Kxg5 44. Kd3 h5 45. Rb2
Bxc6 46. Rc2 Bd5 47. Rxc7 Kf4 48. Ra7 Bxb3 49. Kd2 Bxa4 50. Rxa5 Be8 51.
Ra8 Bb5 52. Rf8+ Ke4 53. Rf7 Bc4 54. Rc7 Kd4 55. Rd7+ Bd5 56. Ra7 b3 57.
Ra1 Bf7 58. Rf1 Bg6 59. Kc1 Ke3 60. Re1+ Kf4 61. Rh1 f2 62. Kb2 Bd3 63.
Rh4+ Kf3 64. Rh3+ Kg2 65. Rxd3 f1=Q 66. Rd2+ Kf3 67. Kxb3 Qb5+ 68. Kc2 h4

Since the Genesis game cannot resign a game, I decided to abort this game and looking forward to the next game.

[Event "New Game"]
[Site "My Site"]
[Date "2009.02.28"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Shredder Mobile: Blitz 60 min."]
[Black "Chess for Sega: Level 12"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 c5 5. cxd5 cxd4 6. Qa4+ Nbd7 7. Qxd4
Bc5 8. Qc4 exd5 9. Nxd5 Bb6 10. Bg5 h6 11. Nxb6 Qxb6 12. Bc1 O-O 13. b4 Re8
14. Be3 Qe6 15. Qxe6 Rxe6 16. O-O-O Ne4 17. Kb2 Rc6 18. Bd4 Nb6 19. Ne5 Rd6
20. Rd3 Be6 21. f3 Nc4+ 22. Nxc4 Bxc4 23. fxe4 Bxd3 24. Bc5 Re6 25. exd3 a5
26. Be2 b6 27. Bd4 axb4 28. Rc1 b5 29. Rc7 Rea6 30. Bf1 Rxa2+ 31. Kb3 R2a4
32. h4 g5 33. Bf6 gxh4 34. d4 Ra1 35. Bxb5 Rb1+ 36. Kc2 Re1 37. Bc6 Rb8 38.
Bd5 b3+ 39. Bxb3 h3 40. Bxf7+ Kf8 41. gxh3 Rb6 42. e5 Re3 43. Bd5 Ke8 44.
Bc6+ Kf8 45. Be7+ Kg8 46. Bd5+ Kh8 47. Bf6+ Rxf6 48. exf6 Re8 49. f7 Rb8
50. Re7 Rf8 51. Re8 Kg7 52. Rxf8 Kxf8 53. Kd3 Ke7 54. Be6 h5 55. d5 h4 56.
d6+ Kxd6 57. f8=Q+ Kxe6

-- Again I aborted the game here.


PS1: I used a Sony-Ericsson phone that according to Jbenchmark Its computing performance is equivalent to a 105 MHz ARM9 CPU (as opposed to your 490 MHz ARM11 CPU).

PS2: It could also be that the Genesis game is not that sane or my phone is too strong to handle.

[mclane]

[Event "1' per move"]
[Site "SCW"]
[Date "2009.02.28"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Shredder Mot.Rokr z6 490mhz"]
[Black "Mephisto Berlin 68000"]
[ECO "D31"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 dxc4 5. e4 {" max NPS
5700} b5 6. Be2 Bb7 7. O-O Nf6 8. Qc2 Nbd7 9. Be3 Be7
10. a4 a6 11. axb5 cxb5 12. h4 b4 13. e5 bxc3 14. exf6 Bxf6
15. bxc3 Qc7 16. Rfb1 Bd5 17. Ra4 O-O 18. Qa2 Rfb8
19. Rxb8+ Nxb8 20. Bxc4 Bxf3 21. gxf3 Nd7 22. Rxa6 Rc8
23. Bb5 Nb8 24. Ra8 Bxh4 25. c4 Nc6 26. Rxc8+ Qxc8 27. Qa4
Ne7 28. c5 Qd8 29. Qa6 Nf5 30. Qb6 h5 31. Qxd8+ Bxd8
32. Bd3 Nxe3 33. fxe3 g5 34. c6 Kf8 35. Kf2 Ke7 36. Kg2 Kd6
37. Bb5 f5 38. Kf2 g4 39. fxg4 fxg4 40. Kg3 Kd5 41. Kf4
Bc7+ 42. Kg5 Ke4 43. Kf6 h4 44. Kxe6 h3 45. Bf1 Kf3 46. Kf5
Kf2 47. Bc4 g3 0-1

ooops.

[IanO]

I can't think of a better argument against Java chess engines. Pwned in an endgame by a 12MHz box with only 128K of RAM.

In the earlier Fidelity game, the critical breakthrough Bxf5 only required a depth of 6 to foresee. Hardly stellar performance at 1 minute time controls.

[mclane]

yes but there is nobody doing another serious chess program for those many mobiles that are not palm, windows or symbian powered.

here java is the only possible way and at least shredder gives more than
5 playing levels or shows search information and is going into a recent depth.

the next opponent is the 8 bit dedicated chess computer mephisto Milano. it has 5 mhz 6502 CPU in.

http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/in ... sto_Milano



Mephisto Milano is from 1991 and has gigantic 64 KByte for ROM and 8 KByte for RAM. No hash tables.
ELO is 1961. That is very high for an 8 bit dedicated chess computer.
Ed Schroeder made a very good program in those days.

My mobile has nearly 100 times faster CPU.

[mclane]

[Event "1' per move"]
[Site "SCW"]
[Date "2009.03.01"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Mephisto Milano"]
[Black "Shredder Mot.Rokr z6 490mhz"]
[ECO "B17"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Bc4 Ngf6
6. Nxf6+ exf6 {" max. 5040 NPS} 7. Nf3 {"} Nb6 8. Bb3 Bb4+
9. c3 Bd6 10. Qe2+ Qe7 11. Qxe7+ Kxe7 12. O-O Be6 13. Re1
Kd7 14. Be3 Nc4 15. Bxc4 Bxc4 16. Nd2 Bd3 17. b3 Bc7
18. Rad1 Bc2 19. Rc1 Bf5 20. c4 a5 21. f3 Rhe8 22. g4 Bd3
23. f4 h5 24. h3 hxg4 25. hxg4 f5 26. Rc3 Be4 27. Nxe4 fxe4
28. Kf2 Rh8 29. Rg1 Rh2+ 30. Rg2 Rah8 31. a3 R2h3 32. Rg3
Rh1 33. Rg2 R8h3 34. Bd2 Rxc3 35. Bxc3 Bxf4 36. Ke2 Rh3
37. Bxa5 Rxb3 38. Bb4 Rd3 39. Rf2 g5 40. Bc5 Rg3 41. Kf1
Rxg4 42. Rb2 Kc7 43. Bb6+ Kc8 44. d5 Rh4 45. dxc6 bxc6
46. Kg1 g4 47. a4 g3 48. a5 Rh2 49. Rb1 e3 50. a6 Ra2
51. Re1 e2 52. Bd4 Rd2 0-1