New Scorpio bitbase files

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

Tony

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by Tony »

bob wrote:
Tony wrote:
Daniel Shawul wrote:
What could you have done in my situation?? Do you expect me to delay
the capture in the hope that it will help in avoiding the 50 move rule later?
You can only find such kind of exact information (where exactly the capture should happen) in EGTB with the mate in N condition. Assuming we have only bitbases, then all I can do at best is to weigh the different factors in to condsderation. If you have other ideas , lets hear it. Other wise stop making such silly claims which are easily refuted.
I'm not sure. There are variations where you should not take the first chance for transposition. OTOH transposing into a winning position with less pieces should make it simpler.

You should make some tests to settle this. Include positions where the "plain win" is more than 50 moves away without resetting the 50 move counter, so the "searching bitbases" could actually score better.

I haven't found any positions that XiniX messes up, and it didn't even have the full bitbases ( I used a lossy compression). That includes that cm in 107 ( iirc) in a KNNKP ending. But thats doesn't mean there aren't.

Tony
My concern is that "won" doesn't necessarily translate to 1-0 in the real game. There are lots of positions where capturing or advancing the pawn prematurely, even though the resulting position is won by bitbase info, leads to a draw because of the 50 move rule. KRP vs KR is a good example where you can run the pawn down to the 7th too quickly and see the win evaporate. There are similar cases such as in KNN vs KP where it is easy to let the pawn advance too far which pushes the win beyond 50 moves. This gets magnified with 6 piece endings which is really where the bitbases will become more useful because of the 1tb+ size of th egtbs. Those endings get harder and harder to win with the 50 move rule looming large.

I played around with this a good while back, and decided that a combination of the "swindle-mode" approach, along with an evaluation that had some specific code for particularly problematic endings might work. And for some endings, like KRP vs KR it worked pretty well and was able to win won positions against a version of Crafty with EGTBs which means "optimal" play against the bitbase version. But when I expanded to 6 piece files, the "rules" became way too complex and I stopped working on the problem.
That is a risk yes. But I think it can be greatly reduced by not creating the bitbases as bitbases or by converting them from dtm egtbs, but by converting them from DTZ tablebases.
That way you only have to search atmost 99 ply to guarantee the best move. Anything below 99 poses a risk, but I seriously doubt it's a big one.

But then again, I only tried KPPKPP from the 6 pieces, wich has unsurprisingly few problems to make progress.

Tony
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Daniel Shawul
Posts: 4186
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:34 am
Location: Ethiopia

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by Daniel Shawul »

The pawn term is implicit because of the transpose bonus.

What I didn't see you mention ( and is worthwhile) is the folowing. When in a won bitbase position, prune all the moves that don't lead to a lost position for the opponent.
Yes I could have done that but I guess the speed improvement will not be that much. I don't cutoff with a win/loss score inside the 2/3 search tree. So if I do probes there to cull the loosing moves, obviously it will speed up the search a bit. But One should not forget the effect of alpha-beta especially when I am returning scores closer to what is given to a real mate. The tree searched by including all moves will not be that bigger than the one with the culled moves. The speed gain is also diminished by the fact that I have to probe the bitbases inside tree now, which I am not doing right now. Note that culling the moves will not help me in progressing because I probe the bitbases at the boundary line (2/3 depth) and that will tell me if If the move that should have been culled (inside search tree) is actually a non-winning move. The regular eval() ,which could have tampered that, is never called in my case. I think the only advantage is speed which I might test in the future.

This also sounds pretty much like the one we have been discussing at the root, except that now it is inside search. For me culling the loosing root moves that does not help in the progression aspect at all.

Daniel
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Daniel Shawul
Posts: 4186
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:34 am
Location: Ethiopia

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by Daniel Shawul »

I randomly setup a KNNKP position to show how scorpio works.
Pleae note how the PV is exactly as long as how I specified it to be. Sometimes it might be shorter when it finds a capture/promotion/pawn push where I cutoff. I will try that in my next post.

[d] 6k1/7p/8/8/8/8/1NN2K2/8 w - - 0 1

With full search depth dedicated to finding winning ways.

Code: Select all

FEN: 6k1/7p/8/8/8/8/1NN2K2/8 w - - 0 1 

Scorpio:
   2	00:00	           8	200	+50.64	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7
   2	00:00	          22	550	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   2	00:00	          22	550	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   3	00:00	          99	707	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
   3	00:00	         122	813	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
   4	00:00	         214	1.426	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
   4	00:00	         257	1.713	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
   5	00:00	         800	3.478	+50.09	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Nb2-d3 Kg7-g6 Kg3-f4
   5	00:00	       1.488	5.314	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g6 Kf3-e4
   5	00:00	       1.488	5.314	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g6 Kf3-e4
   6	00:00	       2.457	8.472	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
   6	00:00	       2.928	10.096	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
   7	00:00	       9.820	20.458	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
   7	00:00	      13.002	24.532	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
   8	00:00	      24.898	44.460	+48.59	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-d5
   8	00:00	      30.635	51.923	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Nb2-d1 Kg7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h5
   8	00:00	      30.635	51.923	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Nb2-d1 Kg7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h5
   9	00:01	      63.912	60.294	+48.54	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-g6 Kg3-f4 Kg6-f6 Kf4-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
   9	00:01	      93.374	47.639	+48.56	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4 Kg6-g5 Nd3-e5 h7-h5
   9	00:01	      93.374	47.639	+48.56	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4 Kg6-g5 Nd3-e5 h7-h5
  10	00:02	     223.733	104.548	+47.83	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-e3 Kg7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g5 Nd3-f4 Kg5-f6 Nc2-e3 h7-h5
  10	00:02	     238.260	110.818	+47.83	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-e3 Kg7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g5 Nd3-f4 Kg5-f6 Nc2-e3 h7-h5
  11	00:03	     417.525	104.381	+47.81	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-g4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-d4 Kg6-f6 Kg4-h5 Kf6-g7 Kh5-g5
  11	00:04	     507.780	101.963	+47.81	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-g4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-d4 Kg6-f6 Kg4-h5 Kf6-g7 Kh5-g5
  12	00:05	     845.663	154.318	+47.11	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Kf3-g4 Kf7-g6 Nc2-d4 Kg6-f6 Kg4-h5 Kf6-e7 Kh5-h6 Ke7-d6
  12	00:05	     939.670	171.472	+47.11	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Kf3-g4 Kf7-g6 Nc2-d4 Kg6-f6 Kg4-h5 Kf6-e7 Kh5-h6 Ke7-d6
  13	00:12	   1.654.868	129.997	+47.06	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-f7 Kg5-f5 Kf7-g7 Nd3-f4
  13	00:15	   1.988.436	130.560	+47.06	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-f7 Kg5-f5 Kf7-g7 Nd3-f4
  14	00:17	   3.272.777	189.946	+46.36	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-d7 Nd3-f4 Kd7-d6 Kg5-f5 h7-h6
  14	00:17	   3.669.519	204.088	+46.36	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-d7 Nd3-f4 Kd7-d6 Kg5-f5 h7-h6
  15	00:38	   6.061.142	157.514	+46.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-e7 Nd3-f4 Ke7-d6 Kg5-f5 Kd6-e7 Ne3-f1
  15	00:45	   6.963.121	153.949	+46.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Kf2-f3 Kg7-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-e7 Nd3-f4 Ke7-d6 Kg5-f5 Kd6-e7 Ne3-f1
  16	00:57	  15.068.552	259.892	+45.59	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-e6 Kf3-g4 Ke6-f6 Nc2-d4 Kf6-e7 Kg4-f5 Ke7-d7 Nd4-b5 Kd7-c6 Nb5-c3 Kc6-d7 Nc3-e4 Kd7-e7
  16	00:59	  16.374.545	274.142	+45.59	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-e6 Kf3-g4 Ke6-f6 Nc2-d4 Kf6-e7 Kg4-f5 Ke7-d7 Nd4-b5 Kd7-c6 Nb5-c3 Kc6-d7 Nc3-e4 Kd7-e7
With 2/3rd only

Code: Select all

FEN: 6k1/7p/8/8/8/8/1NN2K2/8 w - - 0 1 

Scorpio:
   2	00:00	           2	2	+51.57	Nb2-d3
   2	00:00	           4	4	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   2	00:00	           4	4	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   3	00:00	          12	12	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   3	00:00	          14	14	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   4	00:00	          22	22	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   4	00:00	          24	24	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   5	00:00	         139	13.900	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
   5	00:00	         183	18.300	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
   6	00:00	         323	32.300	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
   6	00:00	         385	38.500	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
   7	00:00	         542	54.200	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
   7	00:00	         584	58.400	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
   8	00:00	       1.496	37.400	+50.09	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d3 Kf7-g6 Kg3-f4
   8	00:00	       2.363	26.255	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g6 Kf3-e4
   8	00:00	       2.363	26.255	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g6 Kf3-e4
   9	00:00	       3.618	40.200	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-e6 Kf3-e4 h7-h5
   9	00:00	       4.273	47.477	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-e6 Kf3-e4 h7-h5
  10	00:00	       5.517	61.300	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-e6 Kf3-e4 h7-h5
  10	00:00	       6.003	66.700	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-e6 Kf3-e4 h7-h5
  11	00:00	      18.762	53.605	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  11	00:00	      25.545	55.532	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  12	00:00	      44.817	93.368	+48.59	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-f6 Kf3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-d5
  12	00:00	      51.058	102.116	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  12	00:00	      51.058	102.116	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  13	00:00	      59.460	112.188	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  13	00:00	      67.450	124.907	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  14	00:00	      91.650	117.500	+48.54	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-g6 Kg3-f4 Kg6-f6 Nc2-d4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e4
  14	00:01	     141.065	110.207	+48.56	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g6 Kf3-e4 Kg6-g5 Nd3-f4 h7-h5
  14	00:01	     141.065	110.207	+48.56	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g6 Kf3-e4 Kg6-g5 Nd3-f4 h7-h5
  15	00:01	     258.347	181.934	+47.83	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g7 Kf3-e4 Kg7-g6 Nd3-f4 Kg6-f6 Nc2-e3 h7-h6
  15	00:01	     294.182	201.494	+47.83	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g7 Kf3-e4 Kg7-g6 Nd3-f4 Kg6-f6 Nc2-e3 h7-h6
  16	00:01	     370.943	237.783	+47.83	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g7 Kf3-e4 Kg7-g6 Nd3-f4 Kg6-f6 Nc2-e3 h7-h6
  16	00:01	     386.395	246.111	+47.83	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g7 Kf3-e4 Kg7-g6 Nd3-f4 Kg6-f6 Nc2-e3 h7-h6
  17	00:04	     720.906	169.624	+47.81	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-f3 Kf7-g7 Kf3-g4 Kg7-g6 Nc2-d4 Kg6-f6 Kg4-h5 Kf6-g7 Kh5-g5
Just for fun I tried also 1/3rd

Code: Select all

FEN: 6k1/7p/8/8/8/8/1NN2K2/8 w - - 0 1 

Scorpio:
   2	00:00	           5	5	+0.10	Nb2-d3
   3	00:00	           9	9	+51.57	Nb2-d3
   3	00:00	          11	11	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   3	00:00	          11	11	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   4	00:00	          13	13	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   4	00:00	          14	14	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   5	00:00	          16	16	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   5	00:00	          17	17	+51.66	Kf2-g3
   6	00:00	          25	25	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   6	00:00	          27	27	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   7	00:00	          35	35	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   7	00:00	          37	37	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   8	00:00	          45	45	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   8	00:00	          47	47	+50.80	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7
   9	00:00	         162	4.050	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
   9	00:00	         206	5.150	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
  10	00:00	         271	6.775	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
  10	00:00	         294	7.350	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
  11	00:00	         323	8.075	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
  11	00:00	         346	8.650	+50.92	Kf2-g3 Kg8-g7 Kg3-g4
  12	00:00	         570	14.250	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
  12	00:00	         635	15.875	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
  13	00:00	         775	12.916	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
  13	00:00	         817	13.616	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
  14	00:00	         942	15.700	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
  14	00:00	         984	16.400	+50.10	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Kg3-g4 Kf7-e6
  15	00:00	       1.986	18.054	+50.09	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d3 Kf7-g6 Kg3-f4
  15	00:00	       3.091	15.455	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4
  15	00:00	       3.091	15.455	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4
  16	00:00	       3.611	17.195	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4
  16	00:00	       3.970	18.904	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4
  17	00:00	       4.457	13.928	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4
  17	00:00	       4.698	14.681	+50.14	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4
  18	00:00	       6.078	17.876	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
  18	00:00	       6.679	18.552	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
  19	00:00	       7.663	21.286	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
  19	00:00	       8.117	22.547	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
  20	00:00	       9.006	24.340	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
  20	00:00	       9.413	25.440	+49.40	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-e6 Ke3-e4 h7-h5
  21	00:00	      23.410	39.677	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  21	00:00	      28.135	41.992	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  22	00:00	      34.770	44.576	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  22	00:00	      38.015	45.255	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  23	00:00	      44.292	47.625	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  23	00:00	      46.735	48.682	+49.34	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  24	00:01	      64.301	64.301	+48.59	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-f6 Ke3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-g5 Ke6-d5
  24	00:01	      73.000	72.277	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  24	00:01	      73.000	72.277	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  25	00:01	      79.167	76.861	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  25	00:01	      88.420	85.019	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  26	00:01	      93.450	88.160	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  26	00:01	     102.066	95.388	+48.60	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-e6 Kf4-e4 h7-h6
  27	00:01	     131.570	96.036	+48.58	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d3 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 Kg6-g5 Nc2-e3
  27	00:01	     179.617	96.568	+48.58	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d3 Kf7-f6 Kg3-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 Kg6-g5 Nc2-e3
  28	00:02	     211.580	97.055	+48.54	Kf2-g3 Kg8-f7 Nb2-d1 Kf7-e6 Kg3-f4 Ke6-f6 Kf4-e4 Kf6-g6 Nc2-e3
  28	00:02	     248.260	98.126	+48.56	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4 Kg6-g5 Nd3-f4 h7-h5
  28	00:02	     248.260	98.126	+48.56	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Kf2-e3 Kf7-g6 Ke3-e4 Kg6-g5 Nd3-f4 h7-h5
Now if I just set it to a depth inside the queiscence search it starts to use its regular eval and might return a wrong unless I cull the loosing root moves at the root.

Code: Select all

FEN: 6k1/7p/8/8/8/8/1NN2K2/8 w - - 0 1 

Scorpio:
   2	00:00	           5	5	+49.95	Nb2-d3
   3	00:00	          96	96	 0.00	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3
   3	00:00	         116	116	 0.00	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3
   4	00:00	         245	245	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8
   4	00:00	         281	281	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8
   5	00:00	         884	884	 0.00	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-h8 Ne3-g4
   5	00:00	       1.201	1.201	 0.00	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-h8 Ne3-g4
   6	00:00	       2.464	2.464	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-f7
   6	00:00	       2.953	2.953	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-f7
   7	00:00	      10.062	335.400	 0.00	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nf5-h6
   7	00:00	      12.672	422.400	 0.00	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nf5-h6
   8	00:00	      24.254	346.485	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-d1 Kg8-g7 Nd1-b2 Kg7-g8
   8	00:00	      27.983	399.757	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-d1 Kg8-g7 Nd1-b2 Kg7-g8
   9	00:00	      76.533	637.775	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7
   9	00:00	      91.708	611.386	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7
  10	00:00	     168.362	801.723	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-d1 Kg8-g7 Nd1-b2 Kg7-g8 Kf2-f3 Kg8-f7
  10	00:00	     190.087	826.465	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-d1 Kg8-g7 Nd1-b2 Kg7-g8 Kf2-f3 Kg8-f7
  11	00:00	     435.207	946.102	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Ne5-f7 Kg7-f6
  11	00:00	     493.716	968.070	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Ne5-f7 Kg7-f6
  12	00:00	     975.161	1.083.512	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-d1 Kg8-g7 Nd1-b2 Kg7-g8 Kf2-f3 Kg8-f7 Kf3-e4 Kf7-g8
  12	00:01	   1.078.556	1.078.556	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-f7 Nc2-e3 Kf7-g8 Ne3-d1 Kg8-g7 Nd1-b2 Kg7-g8 Kf2-f3 Kg8-f7 Kf3-e4 Kf7-g8
  13	00:01	   1.987.909	1.162.519	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Ne5-f7 Kg7-f6 Kf2-f3 Kf6-g7
  13	00:01	   2.194.145	1.173.339	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Ne5-f7 Kg7-f6 Kf2-f3 Kf6-g7
  14	00:04	   4.492.497	998.332	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-h8 Kf2-f3 Kh8-g7 Ne3-f5 Kg7-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Nh6-g4 Kg7-g8 Ng4-f6 Kg8-g7 Nf6-h5 Kg7-g6 Nh5-g3 Kg6-f7
  14	00:04	   4.786.995	1.007.788	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-h8 Kf2-f3 Kh8-g7 Ne3-f5 Kg7-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Nh6-g4 Kg7-g8 Ng4-f6 Kg8-g7 Nf6-h5 Kg7-g6 Nh5-g3 Kg6-f7
  15	00:08	   8.671.260	991.001	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Ne5-f7 Kg7-f6 Kf2-f3 Kf6-g7 Kf3-g4 Kg7-f6
  15	00:09	   9.320.450	1.007.616	+0.10	Nb2-d3 Kg8-g7 Nc2-e3 Kg7-g8 Ne3-f5 Kg8-h8 Nd3-e5 Kh8-g8 Nf5-h6 Kg8-g7 Ne5-f7 Kg7-f6 Kf2-f3 Kf6-g7 Kf3-g4 Kg7-f6
Daniel
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bob
Posts: 20943
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by bob »

Tony wrote:
bob wrote:
Tony wrote:
Daniel Shawul wrote:
What could you have done in my situation?? Do you expect me to delay
the capture in the hope that it will help in avoiding the 50 move rule later?
You can only find such kind of exact information (where exactly the capture should happen) in EGTB with the mate in N condition. Assuming we have only bitbases, then all I can do at best is to weigh the different factors in to condsderation. If you have other ideas , lets hear it. Other wise stop making such silly claims which are easily refuted.
I'm not sure. There are variations where you should not take the first chance for transposition. OTOH transposing into a winning position with less pieces should make it simpler.

You should make some tests to settle this. Include positions where the "plain win" is more than 50 moves away without resetting the 50 move counter, so the "searching bitbases" could actually score better.

I haven't found any positions that XiniX messes up, and it didn't even have the full bitbases ( I used a lossy compression). That includes that cm in 107 ( iirc) in a KNNKP ending. But thats doesn't mean there aren't.

Tony
My concern is that "won" doesn't necessarily translate to 1-0 in the real game. There are lots of positions where capturing or advancing the pawn prematurely, even though the resulting position is won by bitbase info, leads to a draw because of the 50 move rule. KRP vs KR is a good example where you can run the pawn down to the 7th too quickly and see the win evaporate. There are similar cases such as in KNN vs KP where it is easy to let the pawn advance too far which pushes the win beyond 50 moves. This gets magnified with 6 piece endings which is really where the bitbases will become more useful because of the 1tb+ size of th egtbs. Those endings get harder and harder to win with the 50 move rule looming large.

I played around with this a good while back, and decided that a combination of the "swindle-mode" approach, along with an evaluation that had some specific code for particularly problematic endings might work. And for some endings, like KRP vs KR it worked pretty well and was able to win won positions against a version of Crafty with EGTBs which means "optimal" play against the bitbase version. But when I expanded to 6 piece files, the "rules" became way too complex and I stopped working on the problem.
That is a risk yes. But I think it can be greatly reduced by not creating the bitbases as bitbases or by converting them from dtm egtbs, but by converting them from DTZ tablebases.
That way you only have to search atmost 99 ply to guarantee the best move. Anything below 99 poses a risk, but I seriously doubt it's a big one.

But then again, I only tried KPPKPP from the 6 pieces, wich has unsurprisingly few problems to make progress.

Tony
I made mine from direct enumeration for extraction from an egtb pair. I chose KRPKR because that is a somewhat problematic position since it is not only about advancing the pawn, but also about controlling the opponent/your king position. That's where I discovered I needed some eval "help" to win won positions. I finally decided that the best case was bitbases in the search, egtbs at the root and this problem goes away. Then I decided to really make the problem go away and not worry with the bitbases. :) And more recently I have not even been using egtbs...
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Daniel Shawul
Posts: 4186
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:34 am
Location: Ethiopia

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by Daniel Shawul »

position from MES

[d] k7/5K2/8/8/7p/p6P/P7/8 w - - 0 1

After the Kxa3 capture is found it stops searching because I assume that
fewer number of pieces a zeroed fifty move count is a huge advantage. Not assuming that ofcourse might find you even more winning ways where the capture is delayed. But my search is now faster with not so much risk IMO. You can just invest more search nodes to find those winning ways being slower I guess.

Code: Select all

FEN: k7/5K2/8/8/7p/p6P/P7/8 w - - 0 1 

Scorpio:
   2	00:00	          13	13	+1.18	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7
   2	00:00	          27	27	+1.18	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7
   3	00:00	          51	51	+1.28	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-e5
   3	00:00	         112	112	+1.28	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-e5
   4	00:00	         137	137	+0.78	Kf7-e6
   4	00:00	         252	252	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   4	00:00	         303	303	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   5	00:00	         419	419	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   5	00:00	         528	528	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   6	00:00	         680	680	+0.82	Kf7-f6
   6	00:00	         960	960	+0.82	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5
   6	00:00	         996	996	+0.82	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5
   7	00:00	       1.103	1.103	+1.39	Kf7-f6
   7	00:00	       1.358	1.358	+1.41	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5 Kh4-g4
   7	00:00	       1.576	1.576	+1.41	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5 Kh4-g4
   8	00:00	       1.868	1.868	+0.82	Kf7-f6
   8	00:00	       3.223	3.223	+0.39	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5-h6 Kc6-d5 Kh6-h5 Kd5-e4 Kh5xh4
   8	00:00	       4.301	4.301	+0.48	Kf7-g7 Ka8-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c6 Kf6-e6 Kc6-c7 Ke6-e7
   8	00:00	       4.335	4.335	+0.48	Kf7-g7 Ka8-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c6 Kf6-e6 Kc6-c7 Ke6-e7
   9	00:00	       5.265	5.265	+0.39	Kf7-g7 Ka8-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c7 Kf6-g5 Kc7-c6 Kg5-h6
   9	00:00	       5.821	5.821	+0.98	Kf7-e6
   9	00:00	       6.598	6.598	+0.98	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-c6 Kf5-g5 Kc6-d5 Kg5xh4 Kd5-e4 Kh4-g4
   9	00:00	       6.699	6.699	+0.98	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-c6 Kf5-g5 Kc6-d5 Kg5xh4 Kd5-e4 Kh4-g4
  10	00:00	       7.704	7.704	+0.98	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-f5 Kb8-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-d6 Kg4xh4 Kd6-e5 Kh4-g4 Ke5-e4
  10	00:00	       8.522	8.522	+0.98	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-f5 Kb8-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-d6 Kg4xh4 Kd6-e5 Kh4-g4 Ke5-e4
  11	00:00	       9.907	990.700	+0.94	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-d6 Kg4-h5 Kd6-e5 Kh5xh4 Ke5-f4 Kh4-h5
  11	00:00	      10.612	1.061.200	+0.94	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-d6 Kg4-h5 Kd6-e5 Kh5xh4 Ke5-f4 Kh4-h5
  12	00:00	      12.882	1.288.200	+0.46	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-f5 Kb8-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-d6 Kg4-h5 Kd6-e5 Kh5xh4 Ke5-f4 Kh4-h5 Kf4-e5
  12	00:00	      14.607	1.460.700	+0.46	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-f5 Kb8-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-d6 Kg4-h5 Kd6-e5 Kh5xh4 Ke5-f4 Kh4-h5 Kf4-e5
  13	00:00	      25.710	2.571.000	+0.94	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c4 Kc8-b7 Kc4-b3 Kb7-c6 Kb3xa3 Kc6-d5 Ka3-b4 Kd5-e4 Kb4-c5
  13	00:00	      26.531	2.653.100	+0.94	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c4 Kc8-b7 Kc4-b3 Kb7-c6 Kb3xa3 Kc6-d5 Ka3-b4 Kd5-e4 Kb4-c5
  14	00:00	      28.478	949.266	+46.52	Kf7-e6
  15	00:00	      31.832	1.061.066	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  15	00:00	      33.333	1.111.100	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  16	00:00	      35.147	1.171.566	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  16	00:00	      38.084	634.733	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  17	00:00	      41.163	686.050	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  17	00:00	      42.860	714.333	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  18	00:00	      44.811	746.850	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  18	00:00	      48.348	690.685	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  19	00:00	      53.559	765.128	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  19	00:00	      56.782	811.171	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  20	00:00	      58.557	836.528	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  20	00:00	      61.831	883.300	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  21	00:00	      67.808	398.870	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  21	00:00	      71.091	418.182	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  22	00:00	      73.762	283.700	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  22	00:00	      78.583	302.242	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  23	00:00	      85.877	306.703	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  23	00:00	      89.526	279.768	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  24	00:00	      91.937	287.303	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  24	00:00	      97.284	286.129	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  25	00:00	     102.689	302.026	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  25	00:00	     107.227	306.362	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  26	00:00	     109.079	311.654	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  26	00:00	     116.942	316.059	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  27	00:00	     122.513	314.135	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  27	00:00	     125.532	313.830	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  28	00:00	     128.349	305.592	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  28	00:00	     139.476	324.362	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  29	00:00	     145.985	339.500	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  29	00:00	     151.131	335.846	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c8 Kd5-c5 Kc8-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
  30	00:00	     154.303	342.895	+46.52	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-d5 Kb8-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3
Without the capture/promotion/pawn push cutoff. The pvs are longer now
but still the same pv until the kb4xa3 is maintained even after a very tall search depth. So we can say that you are trying to be more safe than mine, while I try to be fast in this case. With a capture (zeroed fifty move count + reduced number of pieces), the cutting of is pretty safe most of the time. Don't you think? But with a pawn push (zeroing of fifty move count) maybe the safety issue is a bit more important as you suggested.

Code: Select all

FEN: k7/5K2/8/8/7p/p6P/P7/8 w - - 0 1 

Scorpio:
   2	00:00	          13	13	+1.18	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7
   2	00:00	          27	27	+1.18	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7
   3	00:00	          51	51	+1.28	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-e5
   3	00:00	         112	112	+1.28	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-e5
   4	00:00	         137	137	+0.78	Kf7-e6
   4	00:00	         252	252	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   4	00:00	         303	303	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   5	00:00	         419	419	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   5	00:00	         528	528	+1.44	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4
   6	00:00	         680	680	+0.82	Kf7-f6
   6	00:00	         960	960	+0.82	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5
   6	00:00	         996	996	+0.82	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5
   7	00:00	       1.103	1.103	+1.39	Kf7-f6
   7	00:00	       1.358	1.358	+1.41	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5 Kh4-g4
   7	00:00	       1.576	1.576	+1.41	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5xh4 Kc6-d5 Kh4-g4
   8	00:00	       1.868	186.800	+0.82	Kf7-f6
   8	00:00	       3.223	322.300	+0.39	Kf7-f6 Ka8-b7 Kf6-g5 Kb7-c6 Kg5-h6 Kc6-d5 Kh6-h5 Kd5-e4 Kh5xh4
   8	00:00	       4.301	430.100	+0.48	Kf7-g7 Ka8-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c6 Kf6-e6 Kc6-c7 Ke6-e7
   8	00:00	       4.335	433.500	+0.48	Kf7-g7 Ka8-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c6 Kf6-e6 Kc6-c7 Ke6-e7
   9	00:00	       5.265	526.500	+0.39	Kf7-g7 Ka8-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c7 Kf6-g5 Kc7-c6 Kg5-h6
   9	00:00	       5.827	582.700	+0.98	Kf7-e6
   9	00:00	       6.318	631.800	+0.92	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-b6 Kf5-g4 Kb6-c6 Kg4-g5 Kc6-d6 Kg5xh4
   9	00:00	       6.481	648.100	+0.92	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-b6 Kf5-g4 Kb6-c6 Kg4-g5 Kc6-d6 Kg5xh4
  10	00:00	       7.467	746.700	+0.82	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-f5 Kb8-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-b6 Kg4-h5
  10	00:00	       8.512	851.200	+0.82	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b8 Ke6-f5 Kb8-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-b6 Kg4-h5
  11	00:00	       9.682	968.200	+0.82	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-b6 Kg4-g5 Kb6-c6 Kg5-h5 Kc6-c5 Kh5xh4
  11	00:00	      10.511	50.052	+0.82	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-f5 Kb7-c7 Kf5-g4 Kc7-b6 Kg4-g5 Kb6-c6 Kg5-h5 Kc6-c5 Kh5xh4
  12	00:00	      18.158	78.947	+0.44	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c4 Kc7-d8 Kc4-b3 Kd8-e7 Kb3xa3 Ke7-e6 Ka3-b4 Ke6-e5
  12	00:00	      19.100	83.043	+0.44	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c4 Kc7-d8 Kc4-b3 Kd8-e7 Kb3xa3 Ke7-e6 Ka3-b4 Ke6-e5
  13	00:00	      24.914	99.656	+0.94	Kf7-e6
  13	00:00	      26.062	104.248	+0.94	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-c6 Kb4xa3 Kc6-d6 Ka3-b4 Kd6-e5 Kb4-c5
  13	00:00	      26.603	106.412	+0.94	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-c6 Kb4xa3 Kc6-d6 Ka3-b4 Kd6-e5 Kb4-c5
  14	00:00	      27.443	105.550	+45.72	Kf7-e6
  15	00:00	      32.218	111.096	+44.27	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-d6 Kb4xa3 Kd6-e5
  15	00:00	      33.493	108.041	+44.27	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-d6 Kb4xa3 Kd6-e5
  16	00:00	      36.712	118.425	+44.27	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c7 Kc4-b3 Kc7-d6 Kb3xa3 Kd6-e5
  16	00:00	      37.317	120.377	+44.27	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c7 Kc4-b3 Kc7-d6 Kb3xa3 Kd6-e5
  17	00:00	      42.424	101.009	+45.77	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3 Ke6-f5 Ka3-b3
  17	00:00	      44.133	91.943	+45.77	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-c7 Kd5-c5 Kc7-d7 Kc5-b4 Kd7-e6 Kb4xa3 Ke6-f5 Ka3-b3
  18	00:00	      49.420	98.840	+43.47	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-d5
  18	00:00	      50.325	100.650	+43.47	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-d5
  19	00:00	      58.315	114.343	+43.47	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-d5
  19	00:00	      60.088	117.819	+43.47	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-d5
  20	00:00	      70.398	105.071	+45.02	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4
  20	00:00	      71.912	102.731	+45.02	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4
  21	00:00	      79.864	106.485	+42.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4
  21	00:00	      81.771	107.593	+42.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4
  22	00:00	      89.693	114.991	+42.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4
  22	00:00	      91.439	117.229	+42.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4
  23	00:00	     101.831	117.047	+44.26	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5
  23	00:00	     106.485	112.089	+44.26	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5
  24	00:01	     118.946	117.768	+42.27	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4 a2-a4 Kd4-e5
  24	00:01	     120.987	117.463	+42.27	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4 a2-a4 Kd4-e5
  25	00:01	     132.090	124.613	+42.28	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4
  25	00:01	     136.332	127.413	+42.28	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4
  26	00:01	     152.677	124.127	+43.56	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5
  26	00:01	     155.852	124.681	+43.56	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5
  27	00:01	     175.429	133.915	+41.68	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5
  27	00:01	     184.249	139.582	+41.68	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5
  28	00:01	     202.943	148.133	+41.68	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5
  28	00:01	     205.139	149.736	+41.68	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5
  29	00:01	     225.569	150.379	+42.82	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5 Kc5-c4
  29	00:01	     241.910	138.234	+42.82	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5 Kc5-c4
  30	00:01	     268.527	147.542	+40.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5 Kc5-c4 Ke5-e4
  30	00:01	     274.303	149.077	+40.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5 Kc5-c4 Ke5-e4
  31	00:01	     294.088	155.602	+40.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5 Kc5-c4 Ke5-e4
  31	00:01	     306.874	159.830	+40.88	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b4 Ke4-f4 a2-a4 Kf4-g3 a4-a5 Kg3-f4 Kb4-c5 Kf4-e5 Kc5-c4 Ke5-e4
  32	00:03	     388.151	112.182	+42.09	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b2 Ke4-f3 a2-a4 Kf3-e4 Kb2-c2 Ke4-e3 Kc2-d1 Ke3-f3 Kd1-e1 Kf3-f4 Ke1-f2
  32	00:03	     402.453	114.986	+42.09	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-e4 Ka3-b2 Ke4-f3 a2-a4 Kf3-e4 Kb2-c2 Ke4-e3 Kc2-d1 Ke3-f3 Kd1-e1 Kf3-f4 Ke1-f2
  33	00:03	     469.574	126.569	+40.10	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-b2 a2-a4 Kb2-c3 a4-a5 Kc3-d4 Kb5-c6 Kd4-c4 a5-a6 Kc4-d4
  33	00:03	     501.302	131.575	+40.10	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-b2 a2-a4 Kb2-c3 a4-a5 Kc3-d4 Kb5-c6 Kd4-c4 a5-a6 Kc4-d4
  34	00:03	     552.996	140.711	+40.10	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-b2 a2-a4 Kb2-c3 a4-a5 Kc3-d4 Kb5-c6 Kd4-c4 a5-a6 Kc4-d4
  34	00:03	     563.519	142.302	+40.10	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-b2 a2-a4 Kb2-c3 a4-a5 Kc3-d4 Kb5-c6 Kd4-c4 a5-a6 Kc4-d4
  35	00:05	     652.135	124.216	+40.78	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d5 Kb3-c3 Kd5-e5 a2-a4 Ke5-f5 Kc3-b3 Kf5-g6 Kb3-b2 Kg6-f5 a4-a5
  35	00:05	     721.274	131.140	+40.78	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d5 Kb3-c3 Kd5-e5 a2-a4 Ke5-f5 Kc3-b3 Kf5-g6 Kb3-b2 Kg6-f5 a4-a5
  36	00:05	     843.898	146.764	+39.51	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4 Kb5-c6 Kd4-e5 a2-a4 Ke5-d4 Kc6-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 Ke4-f4 Ke6-f6 Kf4-e4
  36	00:05	     890.515	154.872	+39.51	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c3 Ka4-b5 Kc3-d4 Kb5-c6 Kd4-e5 a2-a4 Ke5-d4 Kc6-d6 Kd4-e4 Kd6-e6 Ke4-f4 Ke6-f6 Kf4-e4
  37	00:05	     960.904	160.150	+39.63	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d4 Kb3-c2 Kd4-e4 Kc2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d3 Kf3-f4 Kd3-e2 Kf4-e4 Ke2-f2 Ke4-f4
  37	00:06	   1.007.333	161.173	+39.63	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d4 Kb3-c2 Kd4-e4 Kc2-d2 Ke4-f3 Kd2-d3 Kf3-f4 Kd3-e2 Kf4-e4 Ke2-f2 Ke4-f4
  38	00:07	   1.195.488	154.256	+40.40	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d4 Kb3-c2 Kd4-e4 a2-a4 Ke4-e3 Kc2-d1 Ke3-f3 Kd1-d2 Kf3-e4 Kd2-e2 Ke4-f4 Ke2-e1
  38	00:07	   1.370.337	171.292	+40.40	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d4 Kb3-c2 Kd4-e4 a2-a4 Ke4-e3 Kc2-d1 Ke3-f3 Kd1-d2 Kf3-e4 Kd2-e2 Ke4-f4 Ke2-e1
  39	00:08	   1.498.931	181.688	+39.32	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d4 Kb3-c2 Kd4-e4 Kc2-d2 Ke4-f3 a2-a4 Kf3-f2 Kd2-d3 Kf2-e1 Kd3-e4 Ke1-d2 Ke4-f4 Kd2-c2
  39	00:08	   1.669.499	196.411	+39.32	Kf7-e6 Ka8-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-c4 Kb6-c6 Kc4-b3 Kc6-d5 Kb3xa3 Kd5-c4 Ka3-a4 Kc4-c5 Ka4-b3 Kc5-d4 Kb3-c2 Kd4-e4 Kc2-d2 Ke4-f3 a2-a4 Kf3-f2 Kd2-d3 Kf2-e1 Kd3-e4 Ke1-d2 Ke4-f4 Kd2-c2
I will try with the a pawn push example later...
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Daniel Shawul
Posts: 4186
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:34 am
Location: Ethiopia

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by Daniel Shawul »

With pawn pushes also the same story. You try to score them in eval() and not cutoff
inside search which is more on the safe side. I tend to perfer the faster search by taking
more risks. The problem is basically theoretically impossible to solve with bitbases alone.
We don't have perfect information so it just can not be solved with a shallow search (we may have the cm107 kind of
positions). Once in a while these positions will pop in my case and yours also, however impractical they
may seem. It is just a speed/accuracy issue IMO, while none of us being perfect. I think the
issue is clear now to my satisfaction.

Here is a very quick game (which is not helping the progress) between scorpio and ruffian. This is with the current setting that I have. Look at how it progresses and also finally shows a mate score +99.97 once it is in its reach.

[d] 6k1/8/7r/8/8/8/1PR5/1K6 w - - 0 1

Code: Select all


[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "WINKOOL-E3F9911"]
[Date "2009.02.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Scorpio 2.06"]
[Black "Ruffian 1.0.5"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/60"]
[FEN "6k1/8/7r/8/8/8/1PR5/1K6 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

{--------------
. . . . . . k .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . r
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. P R . . . . .
. K . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. b3 {+50.22/11 2.8} Kf7 {-1.72/16 10} 2. Re2 {+45.63/1 0.2} Rh8 3. Kb2
{+46.08/10 1.7} Rb8 4. Kc3 {+46.93/9 1.3} Rc8+ 5. Kd4 {+46.89/9 1.5} Rb8 6.
Re3 {+46.74/8 1.7} Rd8+ {-1.69/14 1.3} 7. Kc5 {+45.94/10 2.1} Rc8+ 8. Kd6
{+45.89/10 1.5} Rb8 {-1.66/15 1.1} 9. Rf3+ {+45.89/10 1.2} Ke8 10. Kc7
{+45.41/11 1.6} Rb4 11. Kc6 {+45.62/11 1.6} Kd8 12. Rh3 {+46.59/8 1.7} Rd4
{-1.58/11 1.5} 13. Rh8+ {+47.51/8 1.9} Ke7 14. Rh7+ {+47.41/9 1.4} Kd8 15.
Rg7 {+46.52/9 2.4} Rf4 16. Rg8+ {+46.57/9 1.6} Ke7 17. Rb8 {+47.37/10 1.7}
Rf6+ {-1.42/12 1.0} 18. Kc7 {+48.17/10 1.5} Rf4 19. Rb6 {+48.97/10 1.5} Rd4
{-1.50/12 1.4} 20. b4 {+49.77/10 1.3} Rc4+ {-1.86/12 1.8} 21. Kb7
{+48.85/13 1.4} Kd7 22. b5 {+49.65/13 1.2} Rb4 {-2.05/14 2.9} 23. Ka7
{+46.28/11 1.0} Kc7 {-2.14/13 3} 24. Rb7+ {+47.08/13 1.4} Kd6
{-2.21/12 1.3} 25. Rb8 {+47.88/13 1.5} Re4 26. b6 {+49.55/9 1.8} Ra4+
{-2.49/10 1.8} 27. Kb7 {+46.78/1 0.1} Kd7 28. Rh8 {+47.10/9 1.5} Rb4
{-3.59/12 2.2} 29. Ka6 {+47.90/11 1.5} Rb2 30. b7 {+49.70/9 1.6} Ra2+
{-4.34/16 1.7} 31. Kb6 {+44.96/12 2.3} Rb2+ 32. Ka7 {+45.69/11 1.3} Ra2+
33. Kb8 {+45.79/10 1.4} Ra1 34. Rc8 {+46.55/9 1.5} Ra4 35. Rc3
{+46.66/9 1.9} Ra1 {-4.75/14 2.3} 36. Rc4 {+45.88/10 1.3} Ra2
{-5.15/13 2.3} 37. Rc7+ {+45.11/12 1.2} Kd8 38. Rh7 {+45.08/12 2.3} Ra1 39.
Rh2 {+45.08/12 1.0} Kd7 40. Rc2 {+44.96/12 0.4} Ra3 {-5.06/14 2.2} 41. Rc7+
{+44.96/13 1.8} Kd8 42. Rc4 {+44.12/14 1.7} Kd7 {-5.30/15 1.8} 43. Rd4+
{+45.23/12 2.1} Ke6 44. Kc7 {+47.17/14 1.6} Rc3+ 45. Kd8 {+47.97/15 1.8}
Rb3 46. Rd7 {+48.77/14 4} Rb5 {-5.34/15 1.6} 47. Rc7 {+49.59/11 1.6} Kd5
48. Kc8 {+50.39/11 2.0} Ke4 49. b8=Q {+53.27/9 1.3} Rxb8+ 50. Kxb8
{+50.77/1 0.7} Kd4 {-5.77/14 1.5} 51. Re7 {+50.19/15 1.4} Kc4 52. Rd7
{+49.89/16 1.4} Kb3 53. Rc7 {+49.69/17 1.2} Kb4 54. Kc8 {+48.89/19 1.4} Kb3
55. Kb7 {+99.82/18 1.4} Kb2 56. Ka6 {+99.84/18 1.3} Ka3 57. Kb5
{+99.86/19 1.0} Kb2 58. Kb4 {+99.92/22 1.1} Ka2 59. Kc3 {+99.94/52 1.0} Kb1
60. Ra7 {+99.96/70 0.2} Kc1 61. Ra1# {+99.98/70}
{Xboard adjudication: Checkmate} 1-0
With the immediate return after pawn push commented out. Since I don't evaluate pawn ranks it failed to mate within the given time!! (I really didn't expect that) . I think now that may be mixing the pawn advancement term, like you do, may not necessarily be better :!: . Because the other evaluation terms that you have might swamp the passed pawn scoring sometimes. Even if you give high scores to passed pawns, it will then start preferring advancement of pawns rather than exchanging pieces and staff like that... I think there are many factors coming into play!

Code: Select all

[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site "WINKOOL-E3F9911"]
[Date "2009.02.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Scorpio 2.06"]
[Black "Ruffian 1.0.5"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[TimeControl "40/60"]
[FEN "6k1/8/7r/8/8/8/1PR5/1K6 w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

{--------------
. . . . . . k .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . r
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
. P R . . . . .
. K . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. Rf2 {+46.98/9 2.9} Kg7 {-2.05/15 9} 2. Kc2 {+46.93/8 1.4} Rc6+ 3. Kd3
{+46.96/8 1.2} Rb6 4. Kc4 {+47.85/7 1.6} Rb8 5. b3 {+47.85/7 1.5} Rc8+ 6.
Kd5 {+47.85/7 1.2} Rb8 {-1.90/14 1.1} 7. Rf3 {+47.03/8 1.7} Kg6 8. Kc4
{+46.93/8 1.5} Rc8+ 9. Kb5 {+46.89/8 1.5} Rb8+ 10. Ka4 {+46.81/9 1.5} Ra8+
11. Kb4 {+46.66/9 1.5} Kg5 12. Rf1 {+46.72/8 1.5} Kg4 13. Kc4
{+46.89/8 1.3} Rc8+ {-1.80/13 1.1} 14. Kb5 {+46.83/9 1.7} Rb8+ 15. Ka4
{+45.87/10 1.6} Ra8+ 16. Kb4 {+46.69/9 1.5} Rb8+ 17. Ka3 {+46.81/9 1.5}
Ra8+ 18. Kb2 {+46.81/9 1.6} Rb8 19. Rf7 {+46.69/8 1.5} Kg3 20. Kc3
{+46.96/8 1.4} Rc8+ 21. Kd4 {+47.03/8 1.6} Rb8 {-1.37/14 1.4} 22. Kc4
{+46.61/9 1.6} Rc8+ 23. Kd5 {+46.52/8 1.5} Rb8 24. Rg7+ {+45.74/10 1.9} Kf4
25. Kc4 {+45.74/1} Rc8+ {-1.38/14 1.6} 26. Kb5 {+0.00/11 11} Rb8+
{-1.28/13 1.1} 27. Ka4 {+0.00/11 0.8} Ra8+ 28. Kb4 {+0.00/11 0.8} Rb8+
{-1.35/15 1.4} 29. Kc4 {+0.00/70} Rc8+ 30. Kd5 {+0.00/9 0.8} Rb8 31. Kc4
{+0.00/1}
{Draw by repetition} 1/2-1/2
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Dirt
Posts: 2851
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:01 pm
Location: Irvine, CA, USA

Re: New Scorpio bitbase files

Post by Dirt »

Tony wrote:That is a risk yes. But I think it can be greatly reduced by not creating the bitbases as bitbases or by converting them from dtm egtbs, but by converting them from DTZ tablebases.
That way you only have to search at most 99 ply to guarantee the best move. Anything below 99 poses a risk, but I seriously doubt it's a big one.
I expect that would make the bitbases less compressible, at least in the most difficult cases. Probably not really an important issue, though.

That's still a lot of plies to search for certainty, even in the end game. You could make things much easier by having both DTZ50 and DTZ25 bitbases. Once you get to a won position for DTZ50 you would start using DTZ25 in your search. If that isn't reliable enough DTZ17 and DTZ34 could be used instead, and the size of all three files would still be much less that the EGTB files, I expect.
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