Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Dann Corbit · Post by **Dann Corbit** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:26 am

[d]r4r1k/p1qn2pp/bp1bpp2/3n3N/2P1B2B/5N2/PP2QPPP/3R1RK1 w - - bm Nxg7; c0 "Kiev, 1964.12.26 Mihail Tal verses Evgeni Vasiukov"; id "sainzlei-00";

How long does it take other engines to find this?

Code: Select all

Analysis from C:\test\nxg7.epd   
3/25/2009 8:13:19 PM Level: 600 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Rybka 3

1) Nxg7;                
    Searching move: Nh5xg7
    Best move (Rybka 3): Nh5xg7
    identical moves! Found in: 03:50
      2	00:00	         106	108.544	+0.77	Be4d3 Nd5f4
      3	00:00	         124	126.976	+0.77	Be4d3 Nd5f4
      4	00:00	         142	145.408	+0.77	Be4d3 Nd5f4
      5	00:00	       1.821	1.864.704	+0.45	Be4d3 Nd5f4
      6	00:00	       5.474	175.168	+0.35	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 g2g3 Bf4e5
      7	00:00	      18.359	170.905	+0.51	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bh4g3
      8	00:00	      49.443	190.336	+0.46	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Rf8e8 Be4xb7
      9	00:00	      64.477	191.931	+0.46	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Rf8e8 Be4xb7
     10	00:00	     123.178	207.117	+0.38	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Rf8e8 Rf1e1 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 a7a5
     11	00:01	     347.167	223.303	+0.34	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Rf8d8 Bh4g3 Bf4xg3 h2xg3 Nd7f8 Rd1d2 Ba6b7
     12	00:02	     587.737	226.853	+0.30	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Rf8d8 Qe2xe6 Nd7f8 Qe6e2 Rd8e8 Qe2c2 Ra8c8 g2g3 Bf4h6 Rf1e1 Re8xe1+ Rd1xe1 Ba6xc4
     13	00:04	     922.010	241.097	+0.30	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Rf8d8 Qe2xe6 Nd7f8 Qe6e2 Rd8e8 Qe2c2 Ra8c8 g2g3 Bf4h6 Rf1e1 Re8xe1+ Rd1xe1 Ba6xc4
     14	00:07	   1.850.091	255.632	+0.30	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Rf8d8 Qe2xe6 Nd7f8 Qe6e2 Rd8e8 Qe2c2 Ra8c8 g2g3 Bf4h6 Rf1e1 Re8xe1+ Rd1xe1 Ba6xc4
     15	00:15	   3.861.722	261.309	+0.32	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Rf8e8 Rf1e1 Bb7xe4 Qe2xe4 Ra8d8 Bh4g3 Bf4xg3 h2xg3 Nd7f8 g3g4 Rd8xd1 Re1xd1 Re8c8
     16	00:31	   8.308.780	270.926	+0.23	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Bb7xe4 Qe2xe4 Ra8c8 g2g3 Bf4e5 Rd1d3 Nd7b8 Nf3xe5 f6xe5 Rf1c1 Nb8c6 c4c5
     17	01:35	  24.299.877	262.040	+0.16	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Bb7xe4 Qe2xe4 Ra8c8 g2g3 Bf4e5 Rd1d3 Nd7b8 Nf3xe5 f6xe5 Rf1d1 Qc7xc4 Qe4xc4 Rc8xc4 Rd3d8 Rc4c8 Rd8xf8+ Rc8xf8 Rd1c1 Rf8e8
     17	03:50	  56.454.287	251.351	+0.27	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4
     18	05:53	  87.728.330	254.633	+0.26	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4 Nd5f4 Qe2h5 Rf8h8 Be4xa8 Rh8xa8 g2g3 Nf4xh5 Nd4xe6+ Kg7h6 Ne6xc7 Bd6xc7 Rd1xd7 Bc7e5 b2b3 Ba6c8 Rd7d8 Nh5g7 Rf1d1 Ng7f5 f2f4 Be5c7 Bh4xf6 Bc7xd8 Rd1xd8 Kh6g6 Bf6e5
   3/25/2009 8:24:42 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:09:59, Rated time: 03:50

1 of 1 matching moves
3/25/2009 8:24:42 PM, Total time: 12:11:22 AM
Rated time: 03:50 = 230 Seconds

Dann Corbit · Post by **Dann Corbit** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:38 am

Looks like Bright was a bit faster than Rybka:

Code: Select all

Analysis from C:\test\nxg7.epd   
3/25/2009 8:13:19 PM Level: 600 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Bright-0.4a

1) Nxg7;                
    Searching move: Nh5xg7
    Best move (Bright-0.4a): Nh5xg7
    identical moves! Found in: 03:22
     2/13	00:00	         588	36	-0.27	b2b3 Rf8e8
     2/13	00:00	       1.228	76	+0.60	Be4d3 Nd5b4 Qe2xe6 Nb4xa2
     3/13	00:00	       1.541	96	+0.60	Be4d3 Nd5b4 Qe2xe6 Nb4xa2
     4/17	00:00	       3.621	226	+0.60	Be4d3 Nd5b4 Qe2xe6 Nb4xa2
     5/17	00:00	      13.012	419	-0.27	Be4d3 Nd5b4 Bh4g3 Nd7c5 Bg3xd6 Qc7xd6
     6/19	00:00	      58.286	1.240	+0.84	Be4d3 Nd5e7 c4c5 Ba6xd3 Qe2xd3 Bd6xh2+ Nf3xh2 Nd7xc5
     7/23	00:00	     107.112	1.727	+0.95	Be4d3 Nd5e7 Qe2xe6 Nd7c5 Qe6g4 Ne7g6 Bd3f5 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4
     8/34	00:00	     292.210	2.680	-0.07	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 g2g3 Bf4e5 Nf3xe5 Nd7xe5 b2b3
     9/34	00:00	     808.494	3.455	-0.07	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bh4g3 Bf4xg3 f2xg3 e6e5
    10/34	00:00	   2.030.630	4.338	-0.06	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Nd7e5 Nf3xe5 Bf4xe5 Bh4g3 Ra8d8 Bg3xe5 Qc7xe5 Qe2xe5 f6xe5
    10/39	00:01	   6.137.966	4.982	-0.03	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4 Nd5f4 Qe2g4+ Kg7h8 Be4xa8 Rf8g8 Qg4f3 Rg8xg2+ Kg1h1 Ba6xc4 Rf1g1
    11/39	00:01	  10.299.345	5.325	+0.34	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4 Nd5f4 Qe2g4+ Kg7h8 Be4xa8 Ba6xc4 Qg4f3 Bc4xf1 Kg1xf1 Qc7c4+ Nd4e2 Nf4xe2 Qf3xe2 Qc4xh4 Rd1xd6
    12/49	00:04	  23.355.094	5.523	+0.03	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4 Nd7c5 Qe2g4+ Kg7h8 Nd4xe6 Nc5xe6 Qg4xe6 Bd6xh2+ Kg1h1 Ra8e8 Qe6xd5 Qc7f4 g2g3 Qf4xe4+ Kh1xh2 Ba6xc4 Qd5d6
    12/49	00:06	  39.059.107	5.639	+0.08	Be4xh7 Kh8xh7 Qe2e4+ f6f5 Qe4xe6 Ba6xc4 Rd1xd5 Bc4xd5 Qe6xd5 Nd7c5 Nh5g3 Bd6xg3 f2xg3 Nc5e4 Nf3d4 g7g6 Nd4e6
    13/51	00:13	  76.008.645	5.856	+0.08	Be4xh7 Kh8xh7 Qe2e4+ Kh7h8 c4xd5 e6xd5 Qe4xd5 Ba6xf1 Kg1xf1 Nd7e5 Nf3d4 Qc7f7 Qd5xf7 Rf8xf7 Nh5xg7 Ne5c4 Ng7f5 Bd6xh2 g2g3 Nc4xb2
    14/63	00:37	 225.867.259	6.080	+0.06	Be4xh7 Kh8xh7 Qe2e4+ Kh7h6 c4xd5 Ba6xf1 Kg1xf1 e6xd5 Qe4xd5 Nd7e5 Nh5g3 Kh6h7 Ng3e4 Bd6b4 Ne4xf6+ g7xf6 Qd5e4+ Kh7g8 Nf3xe5 Qc7xe5 Qe4xb4 Qe5xh2
    14/63	00:42	 256.191.065	6.105	+0.15	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Rf8e8 Rd1d4 e6e5 Rd4d3 a7a5 Rf1d1 Bb7xe4 Qe2xe4
    15/63	00:50	 308.817.904	6.126	+0.13	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 Ba6b7 Bd3e4 Rf8e8 Rd1d4 e6e5 Rd4d3 a7a5 Rf1d1 Re8d8 Be4xb7 Qc7xb7
    16/63	01:29	 550.243.252	6.126	+0.13	Be4d3 Nd5f4 Nh5xf4 Bd6xf4 b2b4 e6e5 Bh4g3 Bf4xg3 f2xg3 Rf8d8 Rd1d2 Nd7f8 Rf1d1 Nf8e6 Qe2e4 g7g6 Qe4h4 Qc7e7
    16/70	03:22	1.224.966.912	6.052	+0.19	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4 Nd5f4 Qe2g4+ Kg7h8 Be4xa8 Ba6xc4 Qg4f3 Nf4g6 Bh4g3 Ng6e5 Qf3b7 Bc4xf1 Nd4xe6 Qc7xb7 Ba8xb7 Bf1d3 Ne6xf8 Bd6xf8
    17/70	04:58	1.801.186.098	6.041	+0.20	Nh5xg7 Kh8xg7 Nf3d4 Nd5f4 Qe2g4+ Kg7h8 Be4xa8 Ba6xc4 Qg4f3 Nf4g6 Bh4g3 Nd7e5 Qf3b7 Bc4xf1 Nd4xe6 Qc7xb7 Ba8xb7 Bf1d3 Ne6xf8 Bd6xf8
   3/25/2009 8:34:50 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:10:00, Rated time: 03:22

1 of 1 matching moves
3/25/2009 8:34:50 PM, Total time: 12:21:31 AM
Rated time: 03:22 = 202 Seconds

kgburcham · Post by **kgburcham** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:42 am

[d] r4r1k/p1qn2pp/bp1bpp2/3n3N/2P1B2B/5N2/PP2QPPP/3R1RK1 w - -

Zappa

16/51 2:26 +0.06 1.Bd3 Nf4 2.Nxf4 Bxf4 3.b4 Rfe8 4.Bg3 Bxg3 5.hxg3 Nf8 6.Rfe1 Rac8 7.Nd2 Red8 8.a3 Bb7 (322.782.950) 2199
16/51 4:43 +0.22 1.Nxg7 Kxg7 2.Nd4 Nf4 3.Qg4+ Kh8 4.Bxa8 Bxc4 5.Qf3 Ng6 6.Bg3 Nge5 7.Qb7 Nc5 8.Qxc7 Bxc7 9.Bf3 Nxf3+ 10.Nxf3 (623.949.423) 2204

kgburcham · Post by **kgburcham** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:56 am

[d] r4r1k/p1qn2pp/bp1bpp2/3n3N/2P1B2B/5N2/PP2QPPP/3R1RK1 w - -

Default settings

16.01 1:14 +0.18 1.Bd3 Nf4 2.Nxf4 Bxf4 3.b4 e5
16.07 2:02 +0.38++ 1.Nxg7
16.01 2:51 +0.33 1.Nxg7 Kxg7 2.Nd4 Nf4 3.Qh5 f5 4.Bxa8 Ne5 5.g3 Nxh5 6.Nxe6+ Kh6 7.Nxc7 Bxc7 8.Bg2 Ng6 9.Rd7 Rc8 10.Be7 Bxc4 11.Rc1 Be5 12.b3 Be6 13.Rxc8 Bxd7 14.Rd8
17.01 3:27 +0.33 1.Nxg7 Kxg7 2.Nd4 Nf4 3.Qh5 f5 4.Bxa8 Ne5 5.g3 Nxh5 6.Nxe6+ Kh6 7.Nxc7 Bxc7 8.Bg2 Ng6 9.Rd7 Rc8 10.Be7 Bxc4 11.Rc1 Be5 12.b3 Be6 13.Rxc8 Bxd7 14.Rd8

kgburcham · Post by **kgburcham** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:05 am

a little quicker with this one

[d] r4r1k/p1qn2pp/bp1bpp2/3n3N/2P1B2B/5N2/PP2QPPP/3R1RK1 w - -

15.01 0:33 +0.21 1.Bd3 Nf4 2.Nxf4 Bxf4 3.b4 e5
15.07 1:32 +0.46 1.Nxg7 Kxg7 2.Nd4 Nc5 3.Nxe6+ Nxe6 4.Bxd5 Ng5 5.Bxg5 fxg5 6.Bxa8 Rxa8 7.Qg4 h6 8.h4 Bc8 9.Qd4+ Be5 10.Qd5 Bb7 11.Qd7+

kgburcham · Post by **kgburcham** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:27 am

[d] r4r1k/p1qn2pp/bp1bpp2/3n3N/2P1B2B/5N2/PP2QPPP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1

Deep Fritz 1:

1.Bd3 Nf4 2.Nxf4 Bxf4 3.b4 Bb7 4.Bg3 Bxg3 5.fxg3 Bxf3 6.Qxf3 Ne5
= (0.19) Depth: 12/30 00:00:05 39493kN
1.Bd3 Nf4 2.Nxf4 Bxf4 3.Bg3 Bxg3 4.fxg3 Rae8 5.b3 Nc5 6.Bb1 Bb7
= (0.19) Depth: 13/33 00:00:17 126852kN
1.Bd3 Nf4 2.Nxf4 Bxf4 3.Bg3 Bxg3 4.fxg3 Rae8 5.Rfe1 e5 6.Qc2 Re7
= (0.13) Depth: 14/37 00:00:53 381161kN
1.Nxg7!
= (0.16) Depth: 14/37 00:01:24 622012kN
1.Nxg7 Kxg7 2.Nd4 Nc5 3.Nxe6+ Nxe6 4.Bxd5 Ng5 5.Bxg5 fxg5 6.Bxa8 Bxh2+
= (0.16) Depth: 15/41 00:03:04 1393212kN

swami · Post by **swami** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:13 am

Dann Corbit wrote:Looks like Bright was a bit faster than Rybka:

We all know that Bright is without doubt the tactical genius.

One minor disadvantage with Bright is that it shuffles moves way too much. If it can reduce the compuiter like shuffling moves that's without purpose, then I'd bet that it'd get past Naum in the standings.

Spock · Post by **Spock** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:22 am

swami wrote: One minor disadvantage with Bright is that it shuffles moves way too much. If it can reduce the compuiter like shuffling moves that's without purpose, then I'd bet that it'd get past Naum in the standings.

If that shuffling costs 150+ ELO points, then yes sure.

swami · Post by **swami** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:41 am

Spock wrote:
swami wrote: One minor disadvantage with Bright is that it shuffles moves way too much. If it can reduce the compuiter like shuffling moves that's without purpose, then I'd bet that it'd get past Naum in the standings.
If that shuffling costs 150+ ELO points, then yes sure.

In a game against Sjeng, I and Allard noticed atleast 4 moves that are meaningless. For example, in the middle of the game, Bright played Kh1, then Kh2, Ra1, Kh3... Deep Sjeng suggested better alternative in its analysis. (g4, instead of Kh1,Kh2). What do you get as a result from all that shuffling? 4 wasted moves. Sjeng became more optimistic.

In an open game, It wouldn't shuffle at all. Discounting the losses due to shuffling, then you'd easily see Bright at 3100 or better already.

Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Re: Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Re: Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Two minutes

Re: Two minutes

Deep Fritz 1

Re: Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Re: Interesting position from the Rybka forum

Re: Interesting position from the Rybka forum