Using partial set of 6 piece endgame tablebases

[gordonr]

I'm currently downloading a partial set of 6 man TBs. I will have at most 0.5 Terabyte of space to use, so can't download the full set.

However, maybe I'm underestimating the need for all derivatives before downloading those containing pawns?! For example:

[d]8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Here, I've downloaded BPPvsN but I noticed that this caused issues while analysing with Zappa. So I then downloaded QBPvN but I still see issues (Zappa doesn't play a7 and allows a draw).

Rybka handles this ok. I realise that some engines have minimum search prior to using TBs. This defaults to 4 for Zappa. Why is Zappa avoiding a7? The best line stays within my downloaded TBs.

I also plan to start checksumming my downloads for corrupt files, etc. Not yet done.

thanks
Gordon

[kgburcham]

Gordon, seems ok here.



[d] 8/8/P7/B3nk2/8/8/P7/K7 w - - 0 1

Zappa Mexico II
(Chessbase)

tbs=4

1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qd5+ Kg4 4.Qd7+ Kf4 5.Bd2+ Ke4 6.Bxg5 Ke5 7.Qe7+ Kd4 8.Qd8+ Ke4 9.Qd6 Kf3 10.Qf4+ Ke2 11.Qe4+ Kf2 12.Qe3+ Kg2 13.Qe2+ Kg3 14.Qe4 Kh3 15.Qf3+ Kh2 16.Bf4+ Kg1 17.Be3+ Kh2 18.Qg4 Kh1 19.Qg1#
+- (#20) Depth: 13/37 00:00:03 16560kN, tb=476
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qd5+ Kg4 4.Qd7+ Kf4 5.Bd2+ Ke4 6.Bxg5 Ke5 7.Qe7+ Kd4 8.Qd8+ Ke4 9.Qd6 Kf3 10.Qf4+ Ke2 11.Qe4+ Kf2 12.Qe3+ Kg2 13.Qe2+ Kg3 14.Qe4 Kh3 15.Qf3+ Kh2 16.Bf4+ Kg1 17.Be3+ Kh2 18.Qg4 Kh1 19.Qg1#
+- (#20) Depth: 13/37 00:00:03 16565kN, tb=479
1.a7 Nc6 2.a8Q Ne7 3.Bd8 Ng6 4.Qd5+ Kf4 5.Qf7+ Ke4 6.Qxg6+ Ke5 7.Bc7+ Kd5 8.Qd6+ Ke4 9.Qe6+ Kf3 10.Qf5+ Ke3 11.Qe5+ Kf2 12.Qf4+ Ke2 13.Qg4+ Kf1 14.Qc4+ Kg2 15.Qe2+ Kg1 16.Be5 Kh1 17.Qf1#
+- (#15) Depth: 14/39 00:00:14 83390kN, tb=5156
1.a7 Nc6 2.a8Q Ne7 3.Bd8 Ng6 4.Qd5+ Kf4 5.Qf7+ Ke4 6.Qxg6+ Ke5 7.Bc7+ Kd5 8.Qd6+ Ke4 9.Qe6+ Kf3 10.Qf5+ Ke3 11.Qe5+ Kf2 12.Qf4+ Ke2 13.Qg4+ Kf1 14.Qc4+ Kg2 15.Qe2+ Kg1 16.Be5 Kh1 17.Qf1#
+- (#15) Depth: 14/39 00:00:14 83429kN, tb=5163
1.a7 Nc6 2.a8Q Ne7 3.Bd8 Ng6 4.Qd5+ Kf4 5.Qf7+ Ke4 6.Qxg6+ Ke5 7.Bc7+ Kd5 8.Qf6 Ke4 9.Qe6+ Kf3 10.Qf5+ Ke3 11.Bb6+ Kd2 12.Qg5+ Kc2 13.Qd5 Kc1 14.Be3+ Kc2 15.Qb3#
+- (#14) Depth: 15/39 00:00:15 86630kN, tb=5819
1.a7 Nc6 2.a8Q Ne7 3.Bd8 Ng6 4.Qd5+ Kf4 5.Qf7+ Ke4 6.Qxg6+ Ke5 7.Bc7+ Kd5 8.Qf6 Ke4 9.Qe6+ Kf3 10.Qf5+ Ke3 11.Bb6+ Kd2 12.Qg5+ Kc2 13.Qd5 Kc1 14.Be3+ Kc2 15.Qb3#
+- (#14) Depth: 15/39 00:00:15 86650kN, tb=5827
1.a7 Nc6 2.a8Q Ne7 3.Bd8 Ng6 4.Qd5+ Kf4 5.Qf7+ Ke4 6.Qxg6+ Kf4 7.Qe6 Kf3 8.Qf5+ Kg2 9.Bc7 Kg1 10.Bb6+ Kg2 11.Qg4+ Kh2 12.a4 Kh1 13.Qg1#
+- (#13) Depth: 16/39 00:00:23 141mN, tb=12616
1.a7 Nc6 2.a8Q Ne7 3.Bd8 Ng6 4.Qd5+ Kf4 5.Qf7+ Ke4 6.Qxg6+ Kf4 7.Qe6 Kf3 8.Qf5+ Kg2 9.Bc7 Kg1 10.Bb6+ Kg2 11.Qg4+ Kh2 12.a4 Kh1 13.Qg1#
+- (#13) Depth: 16/39 00:00:23 142mN, tb=12665


tbs=1

1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Bf4 Ne1 6.Bg3+ Kxg3 7.Qxe1+
+- (#15) Depth: 14/35 00:00:11 63451kN, tb=200633
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Bf4 Ne1 6.Bg3+ Kxg3 7.Qxe1+
+- (#15) Depth: 14/35 00:00:11 63478kN, tb=200723
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa4 Nd4 5.Bb6 Ke4 6.Qxd4+ Kf5 7.Qe3 Kg6 8.Qe6+ Kh5 9.Be3 Kh4 10.Bf4 Kh5 11.Qf5+ Kh4 12.Qg5+ Kh3 13.Qg3#
+- (#13) Depth: 15/35 00:00:15 85847kN, tb=258479
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa4 Nd4 5.Bb6 Ke4 6.Qxd4+ Kf5 7.Qe3 Kg6 8.Qe6+ Kh5 9.Be3 Kh4 10.Bf4 Kh5 11.Qf5+ Kh4 12.Qg5+ Kh3 13.Qg3#
+- (#13) Depth: 15/35 00:00:15 85891kN, tb=259109
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa4 Nd4 5.Bb6 Ke4 6.Qxd4+ Kf5 7.Qe3 Kg6 8.Qe6+ Kh5 9.Be3 Kh4 10.Bf4 Kh5 11.Qf5+ Kh4 12.Qg5+ Kh3 13.Qg3#
+- (#13) Depth: 16/35 00:00:16 91661kN, tb=287184
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa4 Nd4 5.Bb6 Ke4 6.Qxd4+ Kf5 7.Qe3 Kg6 8.Qe6+ Kh5 9.Be3 Kh4 10.Bf4 Kh5 11.Qf5+ Kh4 12.Qg5+ Kh3 13.Qg3#
+- (#13) Depth: 16/35 00:00:16 91828kN, tb=288240


tbs=8

1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qd5+ Kg4 4.Bd8 Nf3 5.Qe6+ Kg3 6.Bc7+ Kf2 7.Qg4 Ne1 8.Bb6+ Kf1 9.Qg1+ Ke2 10.Qe3+ Kd1 11.Kb2 Nc2 12.Qf3+ Kd2 13.Ba5+ Nb4 14.Bxb4#
+- (#14) Depth: 14/40 00:00:12 74419kN, tb=73
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qd5+ Kg4 4.Bd8 Nf3 5.Qe6+ Kg3 6.Bc7+ Kf2 7.Qg4 Ne1 8.Bb6+ Kf1 9.Qg1+ Ke2 10.Qe3+ Kd1 11.Kb2 Nc2 12.Qf3+ Kd2 13.Ba5+ Nb4 14.Bxb4#
+- (#14) Depth: 14/40 00:00:12 74431kN, tb=74
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qd5+ Kg4 4.Bd8 Nf3 5.Qe6+ Kg3 6.Bc7+ Kf2 7.Qg4 Ne1 8.Bb6+ Kf1 9.Qg1+ Ke2 10.Qe3+ Kd1 11.Kb2 Nc2 12.Qf3+ Kd2 13.Ba5+ Nb4 14.Bxb4#
+- (#14) Depth: 15/40 00:00:13 76680kN, tb=80
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Ng5 3.Qd5+ Kg4 4.Bd8 Nf3 5.Qe6+ Kg3 6.Bc7+ Kf2 7.Qg4 Ne1 8.Bb6+ Kf1 9.Qg1+ Ke2 10.Qe3+ Kd1 11.Kb2 Nc2 12.Qf3+ Kd2 13.Ba5+ Nb4 14.Bxb4#
+- (#14) Depth: 15/40 00:00:13 76707kN, tb=80
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa3+ Ke4 5.Qd6 Nh4 6.Qe5+ Kf3 7.Qf4+ Ke2 8.Bb6 Kd1 9.Qxh4 Kd2 10.Qf2+ Kc3 11.Qf3+ Kc2 12.Qe2+ Kc3 13.Qe5+ Kc4 14.Qe6+ Kb5 15.Bd4 Ka4 16.Qb6 Ka3 17.Qb3#
+- (#13) Depth: 16/44 00:00:27 160mN, tb=363
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa3+ Ke4 5.Qd6 Nh4 6.Qe5+ Kf3 7.Qf4+ Ke2 8.Bb6 Kd1 9.Qxh4 Kd2 10.Qf2+ Kc3 11.Qf3+ Kc2 12.Qe2+ Kc3 13.Qe5+ Kc4 14.Qe6+ Kb5 15.Bd4 Ka4 16.Qb6 Ka3 17.Qb3#
+- (#13) Depth: 16/44 00:00:27 161mN, tb=364
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa3+ Ke4 5.Qd6 Nh4 6.Qe5+ Kf3 7.Qf4+ Ke2 8.Bb6 Kd1 9.Qxh4 Kd2 10.Qf2+ Kc3 11.Qf3+ Kc2 12.Qe2+ Kc3 13.Qe5+ Kc4 14.Qe6+ Kb5 15.Bd4 Ka4 16.Qb6 Ka3 17.Qb3#
+- (#13) Depth: 17/44 00:00:28 169mN, tb=486
1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qa3+ Ke4 5.Qd6 Nh4 6.Qe5+ Kf3 7.Qf4+ Ke2 8.Bb6 Kd1 9.Qxh4 Kd2 10.Qf2+ Kc3 11.Qf3+ Kc2 12.Qe2+ Kc3 13.Qe5+ Kc4 14.Qe6+ Kb5 15.Bd4 Ka4 16.Qb6 Ka3 17.Qb3#
+- (#13) Depth: 17/44 00:00:28 169mN, tb=488


Zappa Mexico 11
(Shredder)

11/28 0:00 +15.58 1.a7 Ke6 2.a8Q Kd6 3.Bb4+ Ke6 4.Qg8+ Kd7 5.Qd5+ Kc8 6.Qxe5 Kb7 7.Qd5+ (3.156.830) 4940 TB:20
12/31 0:02 +M22 1.a7 Ng6 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Qa7 Kg5 4.Qe3+ Kf5 5.Qd3+ Kf6 6.Qd4+ Ke6 7.Qg4+ Kd5 8.Qxg6 Ke5 9.Bc7+ Kd5 10.Qd6+ Ke4 11.Qe6+ Kf3 12.Qe1 Kg4 13.Qe4+ Kh5 14.Qe5+ (15.778.914) 5714 TB:378
12/31 0:02 +M22 1.a7 Ng6 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Qa7 Kg5 4.Qe3+ Kf5 5.Qd3+ Kf6 6.Qd4+ Ke6 7.Qg4+ Kd5 8.Qxg6 Ke5 9.Bc7+ Kd5 10.Qd6+ Ke4 11.Qe6+ Kf3 12.Qe1 Kg4 13.Qe4+ Kh5 14.Qe5+ (15.781.527) 5715 TB:378
13/36 0:04 +M17 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qxf3+ Kxf3 (24.738.355) 5852 TB:922
13/36 0:04 +M17 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qxf3+ Kxf3 (24.750.279) 5855 TB:928
14/36 0:04 +M17 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qxf3+ Kxf3 (26.344.610) 5843 TB:1.171
14/36 0:04 +M17 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qxf3+ Kxf3 (26.415.115) 5838 TB:1.185
15/40 0:10 +M14 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qf8 Nd2 5.Bf4+ Ke4 6.Bxd2 Ke5 7.Qc5+ Ke4 8.Qh5 Kd3 9.Qf5+ Kxd2 10.Qd5+ Ke3 11.Qg5+ Kf2 12.Qd5 Ke2 13.Qc4+ Ke3 14.Qe6+ (66.668.231) 6167 TB:4.429
15/40 0:10 +M14 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qf8 Nd2 5.Bf4+ Ke4 6.Bxd2 Ke5 7.Qc5+ Ke4 8.Qh5 Kd3 9.Qf5+ Kxd2 10.Qd5+ Ke3 11.Qg5+ Kf2 12.Qd5 Ke2 13.Qc4+ Ke3 14.Qe6+ (66.704.175) 6161 TB:4.447
16/40 0:22 +M13 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Qf7 Ke3 6.Qf4+ Ke2 7.Bb6 Nd4 8.Qxd4 Kf3 9.Qh4 Ke2 10.Qe4+ Kd2 11.Ba5+ Kd1 12.Qe1+ Kc2 13.Qb1+ (134.452.085) 6069 TB:12.364
16/40 0:22 +M13 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Qf7 Ke3 6.Qf4+ Ke2 7.Bb6 Nd4 8.Qxd4 Kf3 9.Qh4 Ke2 10.Qe4+ Kd2 11.Ba5+ Kd1 12.Qe1+ Kc2 13.Qb1+ (134.536.791) 6069 TB:12.398
17/40 0:24 +M13 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Qf7 Ke3 6.Qf4+ Ke2 7.Bb6 Nd4 8.Qxd4 Kf3 9.Qh4 Ke2 10.Qc4+ Kd2 11.Kb2 Ke1 12.Qe4+ Kd1 13.Qf3+ Kd2 14.Ba5+ (148.708.380) 6138 TB:16.459
17/40 0:24 +M13 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Qf7 Ke3 6.Qf4+ Ke2 7.Bb6 Nd4 8.Qxd4 Kf3 9.Qh4 Ke2 10.Qc4+ Kd2 11.Kb2 Ke1 12.Qe4+ Kd1 13.Qf3+ Kd2 14.Ba5+ (149.013.400) 6139 TB:16.528
18/40 0:30 +M13 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Qf7 Ke3 6.Qf4+ Ke2 7.Bb6 Nd4 8.Qxd4 Kf3 9.Qh4 Ke2 10.Qe4+ Kd2 11.Ba5+ Kd1 12.Qe1+ Kc2 13.Qb1+ (190.985.325) 6320 TB:28.816
18/40 0:30 +M13 1.a7 Nf3 2.a8Q Kf4 3.Bc7+ Ke3 4.Qe8+ Kf2 5.Qf7 Ke3 6.Qf4+ Ke2 7.Bb6 Nd4 8.Qxd4 Kf3 9.Qh4 Ke2 10.Qe4+ Kd2 11.Ba5+ Kd1 12.Qe1+ Kc2 13.Qb1+ (191.572.881) 6320 TB:28.962
best move: a6-a7 time: 1:09.296 min n/s: 6.380.504 nodes: 423.437.136 TB: 56.660

[gordonr]

Thanks for the info, but what 6 man TBs do you have?

Rybka can find mate in 12 at 1 second with my TBs. Online endgame TBs also say mate in 12 starting with a7. Your Zappa doesn't see #12 so maybe your're not using BPPvN ?! My Zappa reports a mate in 2 with Bc3?? so my TBs are confusing it.

I'm currently checking for corrupt TB files using Wilhelm, just to rule that out. My initial guess was issues due to a missing derivative of BPPvN. But if so, Rybka isn't affected.

[kgburcham]

Thanks for the info, but what 6 man TBs do you have?

It is 2 DVDs of Nalimov TBs, I purchased from ChessOK. Not even sure exactly which ones are included.

[Guenther]

Thanks for the info, but what 6 man TBs do you have?

Rybka can find mate in 12 at 1 second with my TBs. Online endgame TBs also say mate in 12 starting with a7. Your Zappa doesn't see #12 so maybe your're not using BPPvN ?! My Zappa reports a mate in 2 with Bc3?? so my TBs are confusing it.

I'm currently checking for corrupt TB files using Wilhelm, just to rule that out. My initial guess was issues due to a missing derivative of BPPvN. But if so, Rybka isn't affected.

Hi Gordon,

I fear your first assumption is correct. You'll need _all possible promotion_
6 men TBs too, if it should work perfectly with all programs.

Guenther

[ernest]

Not even sure exactly which ones are included.

Then why do you answer such a thread?...

[gordonr]

I fear your first assumption is correct. You'll need _all possible promotion_
6 men TBs too, if it should work perfectly with all programs.

Thanks for confirming. I'll download all the derivatives of BPPvN - not just QBPvN - though there are quite a few... oh well...

Gordon

[Peter Skinner]

Thanks for confirming. I'll download all the derivatives of BPPvN - not just QBPvN - though there are quite a few... oh well...
Gordon

Where are you downloading the 6-man tb files? I can't find them on Robert's FTP anymore, so is there is a new location?

Peter

[Edmund]

Thanks for confirming. I'll download all the derivatives of BPPvN - not just QBPvN - though there are quite a few... oh well...
Gordon

Where are you downloading the 6-man tb files? I can't find them on Robert's FTP anymore, so is there is a new location?

Peter

lots of useful information on
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/tablebases-online/

[dadij]

It is 2 DVDs of Nalimov TBs, I purchased from ChessOK. Not even sure exactly which ones are included.

Here is an overview of what is included, comparison with Chessbase's offering, where you can download tablebases etc.

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=11066