CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Steve B »

Spock wrote:
gerold wrote:Best. Thanks for doing a good job.

Gerold.
Thanks, it's a pleasure. I'm really enjoying it.
Poor old Steve has the hard job actually, continually updating the position and moves on the first page of the thread.
nah...thats a snap
even the R30 game was a snap counting the votes
i only needed to know how to count to three
:P

Hats off to you though Ray
you are slaving over a computer each and every day..inputing moves ..counting many more votes...with the actual Engine author looking over your shoulder..all so we can argue over every move
:o


Well Done Regards
Steve
Sven
Posts: 4052
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:57 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Full name: Sven Schüle

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Sven »

I think the position after Bxe5 fxe5 is about equal, possibly with a slight advantage for black. Here are some thoughts about the current position.

(It is necessary to have some thoughts about the game from time to time, especially when playing a computer who isn't able to do the same, so this is maybe the only advantage we humans still have.)

- White has the slightly weaker king position due to h3. With appropriate placement of black pieces, Bxh3 could become dangerous. The black king position does not have a similar weakness.

- White pieces have medium activity. Qa1 still does not play a big role, e5 can't be taken. Qa3 could be an idea for later, in order to activate the queen via the third rank towards the black king. Light pieces are placed centrally but are not cooperating very well. White rooks are connected but there is no open file yet.

- Black pieces have medium activity, too, and look even slightly better than white's. Rf8 and Bc8 are doing well. Nd6 can be moved to the king side easily, although it will not be effective without the help of other pieces. Main weakness is Bc7 and at the moment also Qb8. Rooks are not connected but black could double them on the f-file after some preparation.

- The center is closed. Opening it is only possible for white with f4, or with dxe6 in case black plays e6. Both moves look questionable in the current situation: after f4, Bc7 will be reanimated, and g3 will become a severe weak point in the white position. Qa1 would get a long diagonal against the black king but also a weak pawn on e4 again. After e6 by black, white should not answer dxe6 since this would isolate c4.

- The doubled pawn e7/e5 currently does not look weak, as usual in case of central pawns. e5 blocks most white activities. e7 can be exchanged against d5 via e6 and exd5, which could also help to reactivate Bc7 via the d8-h4 diagonal later on. White has potential problems on a4 and c4 which can pop up later.

- e6 is still a weak square for black. This is the only point where I still see an advantage for white. If white manages to place a knight on e6 and stabilize it with other pieces, this might equalize other disadvantages of the white position.

- The pair of bishops can become an advantage for black in the endgame.

Now the dynamic aspects. After Bxe5 fxe5, I would propose Bg4 to neutralize the Bc8 which I consider as the biggest danger for white currently. After the exchange, white could try to move a knight to g5 and the queen to g4 in order to control e6, although I expect that black will prevent this.

So far my thoughts ... I would say =+ at the moment.

Sven
Spock

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Spock »

BigLion responds with fxe5 on move 20, with an eval of +0.15 (very slight advantage to white)

Position now

[d] 1qbr1rk1/p1b1p1pp/1p1n4/2pPp3/P1P1P3/4N2P/3NBPP1/Q1R2RK1 w - -

The forum's move again :)

One vote in from Sven already, Bg4
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Matthias Gemuh
Posts: 3245
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Matthias Gemuh »

21.Bg4

... I think Bg4 would be a ponderhit. It forcefully trades off a dangerous black piece.

Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Steve B »

Matthias Gemuh wrote:21.Bg4

... I think Bg4 would be a ponderhit. It forcefully trades off a dangerous black piece.

Matthias.
i think this is also too much information Matthias
BxB for black would not be the best move for BL
if i know BL will play 21..Bxg4 i would vote for 21.Bg4
other wise i would probably vote for 21.a5 because i dont like the position as much if DL plays 21..e6 after our 21.Bg4
21..e6 would make for a long drawn out game where we try to pick off a stray pawn or two on the queenside and win in 30-40 more moves


seems BL cant get a fair shake lately
:P

Leaking Information to the press regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:23 pm, edited 14 times in total.
Spock

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Spock »

He's just trying to anticipate BL's next move, perfectly innocent :wink:
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Steve B »

Spock wrote:He's just trying to anticipate BL's next move, perfectly innocent :wink:
ok
how about this as my vote?

a very rare REVERSE CONDITIONAL
IF 21..Bxg4...then 21.Bg4

:)
Retrograde analysis Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Matthias Gemuh
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Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Matthias Gemuh »

Steve B wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:21.Bg4

... I think Bg4 would be a ponderhit. It forcefully trades off a dangerous black piece.

Matthias.
i think this is also too much information Matthias
BxB for black would not be the best move for BL
if i know BL will play 21..Bxg4 i would vote for 21.Bg4
other wise i would vote for 21.a5 because i dont like 21..e6 for black after 21.Bg4
21..e6 would make for a long drawn out game where we try to pick off a stray pawn or two on the queenside and win in 30-40 moves


seems BL cant get a fair shake lately
:P

Leaking Information to the press regards
Steve
Hi Steve,
even I cannot predict BigLion's moves more accurately than anyone else
:wink:
Anyway I see your post is about DL, some imaginary DeepLion :D

Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
Steve B
Posts: 3697
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by Steve B »

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Hi Steve,
even I cannot predict BigLion's moves more accurately than anyone else
:wink:
Anyway I see your post is about DL, some imaginary DeepLion :D

Matthias.
DL??
why no..
its BL everwhere in my post

Mod Powers have their advantages Regards
Steve
:P
tano-urayoan
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: CCC Forum vs BigLion chess960

Post by tano-urayoan »

One problem exchanging Bg4 are our weak pawns in c4 and e4 attacked by the e6 knight. if we exchange our light squared bishop our d2 knight remains passive defending both pawns. Why we want to exchanghe blacks c8 bishop that is doins nothing.

My vote Qc3