Fritz 12 keeps on loosing

[solis]

Since receiving Fritz 12 I have played 3 engine matches with 60 games in total.
All 3 matches ended up with Fritz loosing.
First I have played Fritz against Strelka on single core and the score was
-4 +5 =11
Stockfish 15.1 also played 20 games with the score +8 -4 =8.
Cyclone xTreme Wrath played 20 games with the score +7 -6 =7.
Last 2 engine matches were played on Q9550 with Cyclone and Stockfish using 4 cores.
Since Fritz 12 can use only 1 CPU comparison with MP engines could not be fair but this is a problem for CB.At the time when most of the new engines are made to use MP computers CB is still releasing SP engine.
I have always enjoyed playing Fritz engines but recently it looks like they are lagging behind some of the other either free or commercial engines.
Just few more details about the games. They were played 40/4 and using PB5 chess opening book.
I would like to know what other people who have received Fritz 12 think about this engine.
New CB interface is another thing for maybe another discussion.

[bob]

Since receiving Fritz 12 I have played 3 engine matches with 60 games in total.
All 3 matches ended up with Fritz loosing.
First I have played Fritz against Strelka on single core and the score was
-4 +5 =11
Stockfish 15.1 also played 20 games with the score +8 -4 =8.
Cyclone xTreme Wrath played 20 games with the score +7 -6 =7.
Last 2 engine matches were played on Q9550 with Cyclone and Stockfish using 4 cores.
Since Fritz 12 can use only 1 CPU comparison with MP engines could not be fair but this is a problem for CB.At the time when most of the new engines are made to use MP computers CB is still releasing SP engine.
I have always enjoyed playing Fritz engines but recently it looks like they are lagging behind some of the other either free or commercial engines.
Just few more details about the games. They were played 40/4 and using PB5 chess opening book.
I would like to know what other people who have received Fritz 12 think about this engine.
New CB interface is another thing for maybe another discussion.

There has been a "deep fritz" for a long time so far as I know. You just have to pay more for it.

[solis]

Hi Bob,
I am talking about Fritz 12.When Deep Fritz 12 is released I will buy it but now we have only SP program.
Few years ago most of the computers were made with 1 CPU but now you almost you can't buy computer that is not MP.
In that case should be reasonable to make more MP engines even that the downside is higher price.But the way computers are improving in the near future people will have programs that can be used on MP and for those who still did not get there MP programs can be used on SP units.Otherwise you can use the program and see only one CPU used.Kind of waste of computer.
It looks to me that having made only SP engine CB has handicapped Fritz 12 that has to compete with all those other MP engines either free or commercial.
Author of Ktulu was criticized for making SP engine and to be honest that was the reason I decided not to buy that engine.I think I will also skip on SmarThink and wait for MP engine.
I have played engine matches for a long time and thought that with the increased strength the games are going to be dull and most of them to be a draws but this so far has not happened.Thanks to a lot of chess programs that have been released in the last few years I have seen a lot of fireworks on the chess board and enjoyed watching those game and I would say that the biggest improvement came from those MP programs.Maybe because of similar strength one does not see often some crazy sacrifice but at least there is almost always something interesting going on on the board.
With the previous Fritz versions there was always some excitement going on but it saddens me to see that Fritz is loosing from the engines that I thought it should have been able to beat.

[Mike S.]

In the CEGT blitz ratings for single cpu (-core), we currently find Fritz 12 on rank #5 between Naum 4.0 and Stockfish 1.4. Among the head-to-head results with 100 games each is a win against Rybka 1.2f x64 with +33 =43 -24, so I believe your Strelka result is not typical. Nevertheless it looks like Fritz 12 has to compete with freeware engines (Stockfish, Thinker...) and is not in the top-3.

At that level, 1 core vs. 4 cores does not make very much sense to me, but it can of course contribute to the data for Elo calculations, too.

As for the mp version, I would not be suprised if CB. skips a Deep Fritz version again: There was no Deep Fritz 9. Maybe it depends upon if they find significant improvements in addition to the mp support, or not.

It looks like the engine is not such a decisive factor in the complete Fritz product as it may be in other comparable packages. Interface features, updated book and updated large database, and the chess server are also important, especially for those customers who aren't engine fans. - But nevertheless, I guess some Fritz engine fans are disappointed, for now.

[Sylwy]

Few years ago most of the computers were made with 1 CPU but now you almost you can't buy computer that is not MP.

Hi Miodrag !
They are a lot of people not interested in MP versions of a chess engine.The chess players ( like me ) are interested to have a good engine only for training and analysing.And a steadfast GUI.Shredder and Fritz are the best in my opinion.And of course......a good database.
For beginners and medium levels an attractive GUI and the tutorials are the main choice. Here Chessmaster is ....the master. Millions of copies were solded.
Sophisticated features of a chess engine or GUI ( like Rybka, Aquarium....)are interested for some fanatic of both chess and programming.
A MP version ? Ok - good for a correspondence chess player , an extremist programer/chess player who want to touch God level in chess, to be centaur on playchess.com or to experiment with clusters.Maybe also some collectors of chess engines and around some hundreds ( if ) of chess/programming fundamentalists. Nothing more !
The number of threads of a new CPU , the speed.........aren't interesting enough for a normal chess player to pay more for a MP version of a chess engine.And in any case not a great business for a chess engine programmer !

Regards,
Silvian

[Kurt Utzinger]

There has been a "deep fritz" for a long time so far as I know. You just have to pay more for it.

You can't yet buy Deep Fritz 12. There is usually an unbelievable gap of 8-10
months (or even longer) between the release dates of single and mp
versions. And when the Deep version comes out, people are already waiting
for the next Fritz version. In times where most chess computer freaks are
using MP-PCs nobody can be interested in single Fritz and a too late Deep
Fritz.
Regards
Kurt

[solis]

Hi Silvian my friend,
thank you for expressing your point of view and to the others who have responded to my post.It looks like Fritz can satisfy many facets of chess playing but even for analysis it is like having a person with one limb fighting with the other who can use two or four.
Since most of my chess enjoyment is watching engines playing each other I am not very much familiar with engine analysis but seeing the difference in strength between SP and MP engines that is sometimes so obvious I would expect that MP engine would be also better for analysis to.
I hope that Deep Fritz version will be released in the near future because trying to play Fritz on single core against other MP engines maybe is not fair.Fritz has not reached the level of Rybka yet to be able to beat even some of the MP engines playing on single core.
But in general we can all continue to enjoy the chess in different ways with new chess engines and faster computers.

[bob]

Few years ago most of the computers were made with 1 CPU but now you almost you can't buy computer that is not MP.

Hi Miodrag !
They are a lot of people not interested in MP versions of a chess engine.The chess players ( like me ) are interested to have a good engine only for training and analysing.And a steadfast GUI.Shredder and Fritz are the best in my opinion.And of course......a good database.
For beginners and medium levels an attractive GUI and the tutorials are the main choice. Here Chessmaster is ....the master. Millions of copies were solded.
Sophisticated features of a chess engine or GUI ( like Rybka, Aquarium....)are interested for some fanatic of both chess and programming.
A MP version ? Ok - good for a correspondence chess player , an extremist programer/chess player who want to touch God level in chess, to be centaur on playchess.com or to experiment with clusters.Maybe also some collectors of chess engines and around some hundreds ( if ) of chess/programming fundamentalists. Nothing more !
The number of threads of a new CPU , the speed.........aren't interesting enough for a normal chess player to pay more for a MP version of a chess engine.And in any case not a great business for a chess engine programmer !

Regards,
Silvian

What chess player, when asking a tactical question in the GUI of your choice, would not want to get an answer twice as fast? Do you want to wait a minute for a quality answer or just 30 seconds? That is what MP is all about.

[fern]

Exactly. And in any case Fritz is awesome strong. I cannot care less if there is another even stronger. I have more than enough.

Fern

[fern]

Keep on losing" sound as its engine was really bd, but I see in your results that Fritz12 is always almost equal to the oppoonent. that is lot strong for me.

fern