An interesting post from the Rybka forum....

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

_My take on the current situation visa vie Rybka is that the engine chess community is ill informed about the legal aspects involved here, and is falling back on poorly constructed moral guidelines that focus on ideas and behavior which are both explicitly not covered under laws protecting software developers. This leads to ridiculous discussions about clones which are only useful for entertainment purposes.

_So for me, the bottom line is as follows: If Vas comes out and says "the following code is taken from Rybka", referencing the lines in the mystery engine code, I will stop using the mystery engine until these components have been replaced. Absent that, I will continue using the mystery engine where it seems appropriate to do so.

And now my take for a clone definition is that:
1.It must be stronger than Rybka.Primary indicator
2.Vasik Rajlich must confirm that it's a clone of Rybka without any scientific proof and the customers of Rybka can go to hell if they dare to ask for one.Primary indicator
3.It get banned from the Playchess server.Optional indicator
4.It get banned from the big test groups.Optional indicator

Dr.D

[Bill Rogers]

Excuse me butr your comments sound like some kind of self seerving BS.
With all due respect the code in Rybka is private and does not have to be displayed to anyone. To do so may reveal what goes to make Rybka as strong as it now is, therefore your request is etically out of the question.
I can see your honest attempt to resolve the issue but to ask a developer to show you exactly what make his program unique is not realistic by any means, and pulling out of some clone to show you this same code is redundant. The fact that a developer has examined a clone and discovered some of his coding should be enough for any serious chess player. Who do you think you are by demanding some proof by expecting him to reveal some of his code?
Up to this point I have always held you in high respect just as I do Dr. Hyatt.
Bill

[Matthias Gemuh]

Excuse me butr your comments sound like some kind of self seerving BS.
With all due respect the code in Rybka is private and does not have to be displayed to anyone. To do so may reveal what goes to make Rybka as strong as it now is, therefore your request is etically out of the question.
I can see your honest attempt to resolve the issue but to ask a developer to show you exactly what make his program unique is not realistic by any means, and pulling out of some clone to show you this same code is redundant. The fact that a developer has examined a clone and discovered some of his coding should be enough for any serious chess player. Who do you think you are by demanding some proof by expecting him to reveal some of his code?
Up to this point I have always held you in high respect just as I do Dr. Hyatt.
Bill

Has Dr. Deeb not simply posted the text of someone else in that section ?
I think you are attacking the carrier of the message, not the author.

"Rybka is private" ? No mention of open-source Fruit ?

Matthias.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Excuse me butr your comments sound like some kind of self seerving BS.
With all due respect the code in Rybka is private and does not have to be displayed to anyone. To do so may reveal what goes to make Rybka as strong as it now is, therefore your request is etically out of the question.
I can see your honest attempt to resolve the issue but to ask a developer to show you exactly what make his program unique is not realistic by any means, and pulling out of some clone to show you this same code is redundant. The fact that a developer has examined a clone and discovered some of his coding should be enough for any serious chess player. Who do you think you are by demanding some proof by expecting him to reveal some of his code?
Up to this point I have always held you in high respect just as I do Dr. Hyatt.
Bill

Are you drunk or something
First of all as Matthias pointed out,I quoted a post from a member in the Rybka forum....I thought it's interesting so I just dragged it here and yes to open a can of nasty and rusty worms....
Second,what Dr.Hyatt has to do with my post

Now,You said it yourself that the project of Vasik Rajlich,more specificly Rybka 4,is a private one right A fact....then how do you explain the fact that the cursed engine is a clone of something that hasn't been released yet ....now that leads us to the next speculation that the code of Rybka 4 has been stolen from Vasik the same way the evaluation code of Rybka 3 has been stolen and a Strelka R-3-E was created....now that takes us to the next speculative conclusion that Vasik with all due respect is a plain fool who is so naive that he got his source code stolen twice and the the russians are the main thugs of course....

So I think that your statement is a pure sample of BS and you are proving nothing but to be the next sectarian member in the Rybka fanatic sect of chess....

Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Excuse me butr your comments sound like some kind of self seerving BS.
With all due respect the code in Rybka is private and does not have to be displayed to anyone. To do so may reveal what goes to make Rybka as strong as it now is, therefore your request is etically out of the question.
I can see your honest attempt to resolve the issue but to ask a developer to show you exactly what make his program unique is not realistic by any means, and pulling out of some clone to show you this same code is redundant. The fact that a developer has examined a clone and discovered some of his coding should be enough for any serious chess player. Who do you think you are by demanding some proof by expecting him to reveal some of his code?
Up to this point I have always held you in high respect just as I do Dr. Hyatt.
Bill

Has Dr. Deeb not simply posted the text of someone else in that section ?
I think you are attacking the carrier of the message, not the author.

"Rybka is private" ? No mention of open-source Fruit ?

Matthias.

It's becoming a religion Matthias and their spiritual leader is manipulating them like puppets with empty words....it's some kind of black magic for God sake
Dr.D

[Matthias Gemuh]

It's becoming a religion Matthias and their spiritual leader is manipulating them like puppets with empty words....it's some kind of black magic for God sake
Dr.D

None of them even tries to answer crucial questions.
Vas once said the computer he uses for programming Rybka has no internet connection.
How then did Rybka 4 travel to Russia ?

BTW, I will try to further improve the time management of Rybka 4 for free.

Matthias.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

It's becoming a religion Matthias and their spiritual leader is manipulating them like puppets with empty words....it's some kind of black magic for God sake
Dr.D

None of them even tries to answer crucial questions.
Vas once said the computer he uses for programming Rybka has no internet connection.
How then did Rybka 4 travel to Russia ?

BTW, I will try to further improve the time management of Rybka 4 for free.

Matthias.

[Bill Rogers]

[quote="Dr.Wael Deeb"]

Are you drunk or something
First of all as Matthias pointed out,I quoted a post from a member in the Rybka forum....I thought it's interesting so I just dragged it here and yes to open a can of nasty and rusty worms....
Second,what Dr.Hyatt has to do with my post

Now,You said it yourself that the project of Vasik Rajlich,more specificly Rybka 4,is a private one right A fact....then how do you explain the fact that the cursed engine is a clone of something that hasn't been released yet ....now that leads us to the next speculation that the code of Rybka 4 has been stolen from Vasik the same way the evaluation code of Rybka 3 has been stolen and a Strelka R-3-E was created....now that takes us to the next speculative conclusion that Vasik with all due respect is a plain fool who is so naive that he got his source code stolen twice and the the russians are the main thugs of course....

So I think that your statement is a pure sample of BS and you are proving nothing but to be the next sectarian member in the Rybka fanatic sect of chess....

Dr.D
First my humble appoligies for mis-reding and mis-understanding what I read. Some how I ran the quoted reply and your response together.
As far as my mentioning both you and Dr. Hyatt together, that should be an easy one as both of you are the only Phd's on this site and as such deserve a little respect.
Bill

[Christopher Conkie]

Are you drunk or something

I believe he was quite lucid. That is a very cheap shot.

I think you should take the above statement back and apologise to him.

Do it now and you will get more respect.

Don't.....and be damned instead.

The only Phd you have so far is the one in piss, horror and being a dummy.

Apologise to the man and show some respect for once you horrible little maggot.

Got it now? Do the right thing for a change......

Christopher

[Graham Banks]

Are you drunk or something

I believe he was quite lucid. That is a very cheap shot.

I think you should take the above statement back and apologise to him.......

Christopher

It was a cheap shot Wael, and Bill didn't deserve it, even if it was made in jest.

Cheers,
Graham.