Frayer's opinion expressed at the Rybka forum....

[Harvey Williamson]

Listen I asked you to say sorry because you told to me "rubbish" as if I had said something wrong. Capito? What I said was correct. Please, I am waiting. Rybka 1 beta was in first edition sent to some friends alone via email. You said Rubbish when I wrote that.

I say rubbish again everyone who wanted Rybka 1.0 beta got it. I presume you refer to the 1st beta after Fruit? I do not have any betas before then.

[bob]

I have the full source code of RobboLito and of Strelka (that was claimed to be a clone of Rybka).
Furthermore, Strelka helped prove the opensource ancestory of Rybka.
FYI, the source codes prove that RobboLito is not a clone of Rybka.

How can they prove that? Strelka code is equal to Rybka 1 code while Robbolito is claimed to be a Rybka 3 clone.

It's also a beancounter myth to report that Strelka proved any ancestory at all of Rybka. The fact that someone "claimed" something does not substantiate something substantial as such as existing entity. However it's (the claim, not the entity) something relevant for legally relevant issues. If however there are no such legal issues then all this is totally uninteresting. It means nothing. Literally nothing. Osipov is a noname not authentic. Only with his authenticity the whole topic would get a different meaning - if ever.

Therefore it's beyond me why now the Robb thing from also unknown people should be existing like a real program from decent and honest programmers. No, if we accept this it will destroy the climate of the whole computerchess world.

This is not a "beancounter myth" as you would like it to be. It is an absolute statement of fact.

As far as the Robo* issue, all that has to happen is for Vas to provide evidence that the program is reverse-engineered from Rybka. And all of the Robo* talk will go away. But the silence is deafening, and by the same token of fairness, one can not ostracise Robo* with no evidence to support that action. And we have absolutely nothing other than a single statement by the author of Rybka that it is a clone, with no evidence of any kind to support that.

THis is true. We have the word of a decent gentlemen against still unknown chess cyber terrorists who want to destroy computerchess sport. For you as our patron no problem?

"Decent Gentleman" said there was absolutely no fruit code in Rybka 1. That is plain and simple false. Now he says that robo* and IP* are clones of Rybka 3, with absolutely no evidence. Of course we should believe him. I gave him a long "benefit of the doubt" as I figured that he would do the normal thing and provide evidence for such a strong claim. -nothing-. Several years Vas was unknown in CC. Should we have been on his case because he was an unknown? There was a time when I was an unknown. Same for Ken Thompson, and the rest of the CC group.

And also good that you repeat the other topic as alleged fact. Bob are you sure that you have seen from both prgrams the source code?

I repeat, you saw

°°°°°°° Rybka 1 beta sourcode and

°°°°°°° from whatever Fruit version (2.1?) sourcecode?

I have seen fruit 2.1 source code. And I have seen disassembled Rybka 1 assembly language. I don't have any problem going from assembly language to C and back. I teach this exact thing _every_ semester in my x86 assembly language programming course. Any other questions you have?

The whole code was examined or just some pieces?

Pieces. If pieces of Fruit are copied, the GPL is violated. You don't have to copy the entire thing. What part of that do you fail to understand??

Because how do you know that what you saw in Rybka 1 beta sourcecode (??) really can only come out of Fruit?

From 40 years of programming experience, which has clearly shown how unlikely it is for two students to produce the same code for very simple assignments, much less for something as complex as a chess engine. I have explained this previously. Multiple times. My answer is not going to change. All you need to do is take Crafty Source, and (say) Fruit 2.1 source and compare them looking for identical blocks of code, or program structure, or data structures, or anything. And when you find zero, then compare crafty to gnuchess, or another open-source engine. And keep going until you either find identical blocks of code or give up. If you find identical blocks of code, we will immediately contact the author of that program as he probably asked me if he could use parts of Crafty and I agreed. But look first, then you will see the problem. Give a simple assignment to an English class. "Write a two page description of XXX." XXX can be any topic that is current. And then compare the write-ups for duplicate wording anywhere. It just doesn't happen. Unless something is copied.

Just for my negotiations with legal authorities. Would that be possible if you related to a page or a message here, or just a quote you post here now, so that I could have the data for my questionnary?

I'm not going to go back thru past CCC posts to do your research. The topic was discussed _at length_ last year. On several occasions.

Again, I dont doubt your expertise, because that would be ridiculous, but it must be allowed to question the sources that made you so confident that you could compare true code. Bob, and please do not play the Strelka card. It proves nothing. Just the codes you have examined.

I have looked at all 3. I first compared Fruit to strelka and saw similarities that looked suspicious. Some claimed foul, saying that is not really Rybka even though Vas explicitly claimed it as his code, originally. So we had some volunteers that disassembled parts of Rybka 1's binary executable, so that the strelka criticism would no longer be valid. But the same problem was still there. Duplicated code, names, bizarre programming practices, etc.

Worldwide also here in Germany in a famous forum people want to know if it is really possible that you had the original source code of the two mentioned relevant programs before your eyes. There are some who said this is impossible. Others wrote yes, but Bob had only the UCI code. Etc. Therefore I ask you here. I'm just the messenger, please dont think that I made this all up.

Best, Rolf

We simply looked at the disassembled executable, which turns into assembly language. It is not a complex task to turn assembly language directly into C, any more than it would not be difficult to turn C into assembly language by hand. I teach students to think this way in my assembly language course, in fact.

[bob]

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

b) would you explain to this court, that you want to insinuate that Mr. Rajlich opened a code of his private program, that he had fizzled in a couple of days to give them an impression of his fantastic genius? (No, Sir, I do not.)

Doesn't matter what you say or believe. Facts are facts. Copies of Rybka 1 beta were available since he did send them out. So it would seem that whatever it is you are trying to say is irrelevant, as usual. He "opened the code" the instant he sent a copy to any single person, as that makes it possible to look at the thing by that person.

c) That R 1 beta then was distributed for free

I am running out of time. So what do you want to prove?

Sir, couldnt we torture a bit, so that he admits?

Sir! We are in the USA and in our Country there is no such thing existing like torture.

I order a penal sum of 550 $$ otherwise 1 week Saint Quentin where the famous chessman once lived.

Officer, accompany this man out of the Court. Uhm, Mr. Rajlich, I have a son who plays chess, could you give me an autograph with a picture of your wife and you, the two international Chessmasters?

Of course and please take this Fish for tonight, judge, it's my newest version of the famous Wch program. All authentic code of course. And for you, Sir, here is a lifelong serial number for an account on my International Servers. You will live over the Clouds from now on. And thanks for that fair procedere. As I always say, keep it fair and KISS.

etc. etc.

And if they are still alive

Once again, you have missed some critical medication. None of that fantasy has a thing to do with what has been transpiring here.

[bob]

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

b) would you explain to this court, that you want to insinuate that Mr. Rajlich opened a code of his private program, that he had fizzled in a couple of days to give them an impression of his fantastic genius? (No, Sir, I do not.)

c) That R 1 beta then was distributed for free

I am running out of time. So what do you want to prove?

Sir, couldnt we torture a bit, so that he admits?

Sir! We are in the USA and in our Country there is no such thing existing like torture.

I order a penal sum of 550 $$ otherwise 1 week Saint Quentin where the famous chessman once lived.

Officer, accompany this man out of the Court. Uhm, Mr. Rajlich, I have a son who plays chess, could you give me an autograph with a picture of your wife and you, the two international Chessmasters?

Of course and please take this Fish for tonight, judge, it's my newest version of the famous Wch program. All authentic code of course. And for you, Sir, here is a lifelong serial number for an account on my International Servers. You will live over the Clouds from now on. And thanks for that fair procedere. As I always say, keep it fair and KISS.

etc. etc.

And if they are still alive

I was suspecious and frankly speaking a little bit concerned about your mental health Rolf,but now I am sure that you're totaly out of your mind....
Dr.D

Funny, but I wrote my previous reply to this before reading yours. I just assumed he was off his meds. Your explanation may well be more accurate.

[Harvey Williamson]

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

b) would you explain to this court, that you want to insinuate that Mr. Rajlich opened a code of his private program, that he had fizzled in a couple of days to give them an impression of his fantastic genius? (No, Sir, I do not.)

c) That R 1 beta then was distributed for free

I am running out of time. So what do you want to prove?

Sir, couldnt we torture a bit, so that he admits?

Sir! We are in the USA and in our Country there is no such thing existing like torture.

I order a penal sum of 550 $$ otherwise 1 week Saint Quentin where the famous chessman once lived.

Officer, accompany this man out of the Court. Uhm, Mr. Rajlich, I have a son who plays chess, could you give me an autograph with a picture of your wife and you, the two international Chessmasters?

Of course and please take this Fish for tonight, judge, it's my newest version of the famous Wch program. All authentic code of course. And for you, Sir, here is a lifelong serial number for an account on my International Servers. You will live over the Clouds from now on. And thanks for that fair procedere. As I always say, keep it fair and KISS.

etc. etc.

And if they are still alive

I was suspecious and frankly speaking a little bit concerned about your mental health Rolf,but now I am sure that you're totaly out of your mind....
Dr.D

Funny, but I wrote my previous reply to this before reading yours. I just assumed he was off his meds. Your explanation may well be more accurate.

I received an email from someone who read one of his posts on the rybka Forum as 'AWRIST' Rolf signed his post as vas's official spokesman - the guy who sent me the email believed he was.

[mariaclara]

hahahahha!

OMG! Rolf, you're hilarious.

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

Rubbish it was available to all.

Sorry Harvey.

You say Rubbish.

Walter says No Wishiwaschi which means the same.

Excuse me that I am so stupid so that you have so many tensions or problems with me.

But here I was correct once at least. I had expected a little sorry from your side.

I do it for you. I apologize that I am not such a famous guy in the scene of computerchess and that I still try to talk with you.

I must admit that I begin to understand that you might have the same reaction if I write a message as if certain women would molest you on the streets. For making you so much trouble, I give my general I apologize. I hope I have now another year of life, of course only if you tolerate that.

Rolf

No idea what you are talking about again but you speak with no facts no evidence and false statements - you do not even remember what the problem was in charles's tournament it had nothing to do with Clocks and i lost the game in question. As Bob said it is old news and has nothing to do with the current debate.

[slobo]

I was suspecious and frankly speaking a little bit concerned about your mental health Rolf,but now I am sure that you're totaly out of your mind....
Dr.D

I'm not particularly interested in discussing the mental status of fellow members.

Then you can keep on discussing with Rolf. Enjoy.

[bob]

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

b) would you explain to this court, that you want to insinuate that Mr. Rajlich opened a code of his private program, that he had fizzled in a couple of days to give them an impression of his fantastic genius? (No, Sir, I do not.)

c) That R 1 beta then was distributed for free

I am running out of time. So what do you want to prove?

Sir, couldnt we torture a bit, so that he admits?

Sir! We are in the USA and in our Country there is no such thing existing like torture.

I order a penal sum of 550 $$ otherwise 1 week Saint Quentin where the famous chessman once lived.

Officer, accompany this man out of the Court. Uhm, Mr. Rajlich, I have a son who plays chess, could you give me an autograph with a picture of your wife and you, the two international Chessmasters?

Of course and please take this Fish for tonight, judge, it's my newest version of the famous Wch program. All authentic code of course. And for you, Sir, here is a lifelong serial number for an account on my International Servers. You will live over the Clouds from now on. And thanks for that fair procedere. As I always say, keep it fair and KISS.

etc. etc.

And if they are still alive

I was suspecious and frankly speaking a little bit concerned about your mental health Rolf,but now I am sure that you're totaly out of your mind....
Dr.D

Funny, but I wrote my previous reply to this before reading yours. I just assumed he was off his meds. Your explanation may well be more accurate.

I received an email from someone who read one of his posts on the rybka Forum as 'AWRIST' Rolf signed his post as vas's official spokesman - the guy who sent me the email believed he was.

OK, are you surprised or what?

[Harvey Williamson]

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

b) would you explain to this court, that you want to insinuate that Mr. Rajlich opened a code of his private program, that he had fizzled in a couple of days to give them an impression of his fantastic genius? (No, Sir, I do not.)

c) That R 1 beta then was distributed for free

I am running out of time. So what do you want to prove?

Sir, couldnt we torture a bit, so that he admits?

Sir! We are in the USA and in our Country there is no such thing existing like torture.

I order a penal sum of 550 $$ otherwise 1 week Saint Quentin where the famous chessman once lived.

Officer, accompany this man out of the Court. Uhm, Mr. Rajlich, I have a son who plays chess, could you give me an autograph with a picture of your wife and you, the two international Chessmasters?

Of course and please take this Fish for tonight, judge, it's my newest version of the famous Wch program. All authentic code of course. And for you, Sir, here is a lifelong serial number for an account on my International Servers. You will live over the Clouds from now on. And thanks for that fair procedere. As I always say, keep it fair and KISS.

etc. etc.

And if they are still alive

I was suspecious and frankly speaking a little bit concerned about your mental health Rolf,but now I am sure that you're totaly out of your mind....
Dr.D

Funny, but I wrote my previous reply to this before reading yours. I just assumed he was off his meds. Your explanation may well be more accurate.

I received an email from someone who read one of his posts on the rybka Forum as 'AWRIST' Rolf signed his post as vas's official spokesman - the guy who sent me the email believed he was.

OK, are you surprised or what?

or what

[Rolf]

You miss the key legal point. "Truth is the absolute defence against claims of libel/slander." One needs to address two points. (1) were the statements made truthful and can they be proven? (yes).

There you go again. I say No!

a) the Rybka 1 beta was a private thing sent to friends via email in all openess.

b) would you explain to this court, that you want to insinuate that Mr. Rajlich opened a code of his private program, that he had fizzled in a couple of days to give them an impression of his fantastic genius? (No, Sir, I do not.)

c) That R 1 beta then was distributed for free

I am running out of time. So what do you want to prove?

Sir, couldnt we torture a bit, so that he admits?

Sir! We are in the USA and in our Country there is no such thing existing like torture.

I order a penal sum of 550 $$ otherwise 1 week Saint Quentin where the famous chessman once lived.

Officer, accompany this man out of the Court. Uhm, Mr. Rajlich, I have a son who plays chess, could you give me an autograph with a picture of your wife and you, the two international Chessmasters?

Of course and please take this Fish for tonight, judge, it's my newest version of the famous Wch program. All authentic code of course. And for you, Sir, here is a lifelong serial number for an account on my International Servers. You will live over the Clouds from now on. And thanks for that fair procedere. As I always say, keep it fair and KISS.

etc. etc.

And if they are still alive

I was suspecious and frankly speaking a little bit concerned about your mental health Rolf,but now I am sure that you're totaly out of your mind....
Dr.D

Funny, but I wrote my previous reply to this before reading yours. I just assumed he was off his meds. Your explanation may well be more accurate.

Please stick to facts and not to your fantases about my sanity. We had that already in the past. Please stop your personal insults, please. I'm sure that you can master and control your native speech much better than a foreigner. You admitted that you had no expertise in psychology or medical fields. If you plan amother diffamation campaign please collect all the many insults so that you can publish them in a bundle. That has more style. - Again, it can well to be seen what Vas had to face if he came into CCC to speak with you.

BTW he told me that you were welcomed in his forum if you really would be willing to talk with him, he surely would answer you. So please check the address of the rybkaforum etc.

I think that this is a fair solution. Here the insults and diffamations are a bit disturbing a noble gentleman like Vas. Also you had to delay the first date for the talks. Again he reacted in a positive way on my request with my idea. And yes, it was my idea. Now drag me through the mud as usual here on CCC or in your attitude.

It's sad to see how personally low you diffamate other members. The monkey typing, the off medication and the final shot at the vet scheme. When did I ever treat you with such insults and you wont see this because I have myself under control, typical for a psychologist, you should see how patients treat you verbally at times.

Let's stick on topic. And you have shown now to other members that you are not a weaky.

Rolf