Raffael - Mystery Finally Solved

[Harvey Williamson]

Hiarcs the only engine that plays in the main hall against Human opponents at playchess?

No. I have seen Fritz and Shredder there but not very often.

[DomLeste]

Ok last question which version do you test there and also is it the default settings against humans? Do you let father play against hiarcs? LOL
Thanks

[Harvey Williamson]

Ok last question which version do you test there and also is it the default settings against humans? Do you let father play against hiarcs? LOL
Thanks

Father has played many times but in the engine room not main. I usually use a beta version but I set high contempt and switch the opening book to random.

[beachknight]

http://www.chess-forum.com/content/142- ... l-Kasparov

No big secret. Its been Fritz all along.

Best,

Gerold.

P.S. If you take a look at the game he played you will understand.

LOL. In that case, he, ie it should have been banned, because of
breaking server rules

Best,

[Harvey Williamson]

Ok last question which version do you test there and also is it the default settings against humans? Do you let father play against hiarcs? LOL
Thanks

Father has played many times but in the engine room not main. I usually use a beta version but I set high contempt and switch the opening book to random.

These games are from 2008 but they will give you an idea http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1629

[gerold]

http://www.chess-forum.com/content/142- ... l-Kasparov

No big secret. Its been Fritz all along.

Best,

Gerold.

P.S. If you take a look at the game he played you will understand.

LOL. In that case, he, ie it should have been banned, because of
breaking server rules

Best,

Server rules doesn't apply to some.

[M ANSARI]

Does this mean Kasparov can only play against machines around hiarcs 10 level in blitz? I know from reading Kramnik had alot of trouble beating Fritz 10 at home before his Deep Fritz 10 match....

H10 F10 J10, S10 etc..... would all crush any Human in a blitz match.

Saying that these engines are stronger than any Human only in blitz is only partly true ... the engines are stronger at ANY time control and have been for quite some time. I think you could probably even give the human 1 to 5 time odds (15min against 3min for engine) and the very best super GM would still get trounced. If you look at the games of the latest chess tournament in London it is quite obvious that humans are no match against an engine's tactical awareness. In several games an engine would have found a winning or drawing line in less than a second while the humans with several minutes thought were still unaware.

[Harvey Williamson]

Does this mean Kasparov can only play against machines around hiarcs 10 level in blitz? I know from reading Kramnik had alot of trouble beating Fritz 10 at home before his Deep Fritz 10 match....

H10 F10 J10, S10 etc..... would all crush any Human in a blitz match.

Saying that these engines are stronger than any Human only in blitz is only partly true ... the engines are stronger at ANY time control and have been for quite some time. I think you could probably even give the human 1 to 5 time odds (15min against 3min for engine) and the very best super GM would still get trounced. If you look at the games of the latest chess tournament in London it is quite obvious that humans are no match against an engine's tactical awareness. In several games an engine would have found a winning or drawing line in less than a second while the humans with several minutes thought were still unaware.

Agreed - but give any GM who is used to using engines a laptop with Chessbase and any of the above engines to battle any engine on monster hardware and I bet he would not lose if his objective was to only draw. I remember in Freestyle a GM with F8 on his laptop beating up some Rybkas on big hardware.

[M ANSARI]

Now that is something I would have to see to believe Especially with today's much improved hardware and a fast time control. F8 will simply need a lot of overriding against a fully endowed R3, and with little time that is bound to backfire. Actually in Freestyle the GM's had a terrible time and got beaten quite easily by many players that were nowhere near even master level, but had the advantage of knowing the weaknesses of the engines they were using and would then know when to override.

I do agree though that even an average GM has a much better understanding of chess positionally than any engine. But unfortunately the engine's advantage tactically is so huge that it more than compensates for their positional weaknesses. I would guess and say that a chess engine plays about the level of 3600 ELO tactically and around 2500 positionally. The very best GM I would guess would be around 2400 tactically and 3200 positionally. This leaves the human at quite a big deficit since even the most masterful positional play can be ruined by one poor tactical oversight.

[Harvey Williamson]

Now that is something I would have to see to believe Especially with today's much improved hardware and a fast time control. F8 will simply need a lot of overriding against a fully endowed R3, and with little time that is bound to backfire. Actually in Freestyle the GM's had a terrible time and got beaten quite easily by many players that were nowhere near even master level, but had the advantage of knowing the weaknesses of the engines they were using and would then know when to override.

I do agree though that even an average GM has a much better understanding of chess positionally than any engine. But unfortunately the engine's advantage tactically is so huge that it more than compensates for their positional weaknesses. I would guess and say that a chess engine plays about the level of 3600 ELO tactically and around 2500 positionally. The very best GM I would guess would be around 2400 tactically and 3200 positionally. This leaves the human at quite a big deficit since even the most masterful positional play can be ruined by one poor tactical oversight.

But the big difference is that against an engine only the GM is free to analyse using his engine and do his own pruning, move the pieces around etc... which will be far better than any engine prunes. I doubt any engine is 2500 positionally. Of course I am not talking about blitz with this scenario. The GM also needs to understand engine Chess.