bob wrote:
It is only legally questionable when legitimate proof of the clone claim is provided. That would _not_ be hard to do. If it _is_ a clone, how would it reveal any Rybka secrets since Robo* apparently has them inside already. So exactly what justification can be given for Vas _not_ providing some clear-cut examples of identical code? I can't think of a single valid explanation, unless Robo is not really a clone.
There is a difference because how else for you it had any importance that Vas claimed Strelka? Only then you began your argument although the Osipov figure had said the same before and after the claim from Vas. I am not alawyer but perhaps for you the difference is that without the claim you would do something which you shouldnt do but with the claim you can exploit it. Sorry it's more a question from my side, not at all a critic or anything like this against you. But you must know the difference. Please explain it.
I don't know what you are talking about. Vas claimed Strelka to be his code. Someone compared this to fruit and said "aha, lots of copied/similar code". That started the discussion. Later others went directly to Rybka 1 binary and compared to fruit. End of that story.
Here, Vas has only claimed Robo* is a clone. No proof. No nothing. Makes the claim absolutely meaningless.
bob wrote:
It is only legally questionable when legitimate proof of the clone claim is provided. That would _not_ be hard to do. If it _is_ a clone, how would it reveal any Rybka secrets since Robo* apparently has them inside already. So exactly what justification can be given for Vas _not_ providing some clear-cut examples of identical code? I can't think of a single valid explanation, unless Robo is not really a clone.
There is a difference because how else for you it had any importance that Vas claimed Strelka? Only then you began your argument although the Osipov figure had said the same before and after the claim from Vas. I am not alawyer but perhaps for you the difference is that without the claim you would do something which you shouldnt do but with the claim you can exploit it. Sorry it's more a question from my side, not at all a critic or anything like this against you. But you must know the difference. Please explain it.
I don't know what you are talking about. Vas claimed Strelka to be his code. Someone compared this to fruit and said "aha, lots of copied/similar code". That started the discussion. Later others went directly to Rybka 1 binary and compared to fruit. End of that story.
Here, Vas has only claimed Robo* is a clone. No proof. No nothing. Makes the claim absolutely meaningless.
You misunderstand. THe point is if data from Vas would have any impact. Strelka showed a different result, he was even more accused. Same now. What all are asking you now is look at the code (without allowance from Vas) and join Don and PLEASE then help to get over the mess, Bob. Save computerchess now. Please.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz
Albert Silver wrote: I am afraid every engine on the planet is guilty.
Why? - what did they promise to fix in writing? He even says in the recent interview the reason he did not issue the promised fix was mainly due to the fact that he had promised one of his team a Cluster version and did not want to let him down. I guess a promise to one is more important than a promise to 1000's of customers.
Albert Silver wrote: I am afraid every engine on the planet is guilty.
Why? - what did they promise to fix in writing? He even says in the recent interview the reason he did not issue the promised fix was mainly due to the fact that he had promised one of his team a Cluster version and did not want to let him down. I guess a promise to one is more important than a promise to 1000's of customers.
Vas did promise to release Rybka 3+, so a lot of the anger and frustration towards him is understandable from that viewpoint.
However, I'm sure you'll agree that supporting and applauding Ippo/Robbo as a means of revenge is unacceptable (even if one is of the opinion that Rybka is a tad Fruity).
Rybka 3+ might still be released. It would be a shame not to fix the few bugs in there, not because it would make it stronger, but more because I think R3 was such a huge release in chess engine history, and it would be nice to have it without the elementary bugs such as wrong engine sequence initialization (which causes the EGTB bug) and of course the blind bishop knowledge code. These are the only two bugs I think are necessary to fix with the R3 + release and they should be very easy to implement. There are other things of course but if only these two little things would be fixed, I would personally be more than satisfied.
I dont buy that. Since that code has been stolen anything added to that would give away too much. Wait for a later version if it is properly safe. Or the online thing. The games must go on! Sorry but you have to suffer because criminals had been involved. In such a case you just cant dream of living on a moon. It's here, it's real life. Period.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz
Rolf wrote:I dont buy that. Since that code has been stolen anything added to that would give away too much. Wait for a later version if it is properly safe. Or the online thing. The games must go on! Sorry but you have to suffer because criminals had been involved. In such a case you just cant dream of living on a moon. It's here, it's real life. Period.
Rolf wrote:I dont buy that. Since that code has been stolen anything added to that would give away too much. Wait for a later version if it is properly safe. Or the online thing. The games must go on! Sorry but you have to suffer because criminals had been involved. In such a case you just cant dream of living on a moon. It's here, it's real life. Period.
Where has Vas ever said the R3 code was stolen?
It was during his stay in Budapest, Wroclaw or Dresden.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz
Rolf wrote:I dont buy that. Since that code has been stolen anything added to that would give away too much. Wait for a later version if it is properly safe. Or the online thing. The games must go on! Sorry but you have to suffer because criminals had been involved. In such a case you just cant dream of living on a moon. It's here, it's real life. Period.
Where has Vas ever said the R3 code was stolen?
It was during his stay in Budapest, Wroclaw or Dresden.
Can you point us to it? He has said several times that he does not have it because he moved on with rybka development and did not keep a copy of the R3 source.
