Mephisto MM V

[Adam Hair]

Hey Nick and Steve. I know that you are completely unbiased in regards to
modern programs vs older programs, so let me ask you a question. Do any
of the modern engines impress you in its playing style? Does there exist
a modern engine that you wish were the brain of a dedicated machine?

Hi Adam,

You know that is an unfair question To answer that would show a bias to what I like, which might not be what you like or someone else would like.

But to answer your question differently, I like simple or minimalistic things, therefore programs that might seem super strong at high speed, but then when they are slowed down they make more mistakes then a well written chess program that is not as strong at high speed, gives me the impression that something basic has been sacrificed somewhere. I like to see good programs that play good chess at low search depths period, because that for my enjoyment reflects well for the chess skill (from a human playing against program perspective) of the programmer and I don't mean that as disrespectful to anyone, and it is just my opinion, because heck every program that has ever been written is a million times better than what I could do since I have never attempted to do one and I can just picture how hard it is and time consuming. It is a different science/hobby/interest all in it's own and probably very rewarding for the creator to see it's creation grow from an infant into an adult.

So if you want an indication of the engines that I enjoy for their minimalistic chess skill, old ones and newer ones you might just have to follow the tables of my 5 ply tournament as it progresses

I hope it doesn't make sense regards

Nick

Not one bit

Seriously though, I felt like you admire solid engines whose limitation in
strength is perhaps due to lack of speed more so than lack of skill.
And seems that I am correct.

To get an answer to my question I will stay tuned to your tournament.

Thanks for the response

Adam

[Steve B]

Hey Nick and Steve. I know that you are completely unbiased in regards to
modern programs vs older programs, so let me ask you a question. Do any
of the modern engines impress you in its playing style? Does there exist
a modern engine that you wish were the brain of a dedicated machine?

well there is a series of dedicated computers that does incorporate modern days engines
they are called the Resurrection and Revelation series
they have several modern day engines hardwired in them

the playing styles are all very different of course depending on the engine chosen
just like the playing styles of the oldies are all very different

more here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 922174876/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 195096455/

Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

Hi Steve. I do not see separate book modules in what I downloaded.

Also included in what I downloaded are MM IV, Glascow, MM Rebel5, and
MM50. Unfortunately, only the MM V and MM IV ROMs were included.

As far as emulator vs real thing, I wish that I had the real thing

ps... at higher speed I have seen good results posted for the MMIV. I think Steve even played against one once in a Tournament which ran at 18 MHz. So you should include it in your test it might actually surprise us and be a little stronger than the MMV.


Regards

Nick

good memory Nick
yes i operated the Saitek Sparc with 4MB(hash table ram) in the Paris 08 tournamnt agaisnt the MMIV overclocked to run at 18 Mhz

the Sparc was actually up a piece but the position was very closed ..the Sparc could not make any progress at the TC of 30 seconds per move so i offered a draw in order that the tournament could proceed to the next round

here is the game from the event..


15) Saitek Sparc 4MB,30s/move - Mephisto MMIV 18MHz,30s/move [D02]
Paris 2008 Saints (4), 18.05.2008


1.d4 Cf6 2.Cf3 d5 3.Ff4 Cc6 4.Cc3 e6 5.Cb5 Fb4+ 6.c3 Fa5 7.e3 a6 8.Ca3 Ce4 9.Cd2 Cxd2 10.Dxd2 f6 11.Fe2 e5 12.Fg3 0-0 13.0-0 Fe6 14.Dc2 Dd7 15.Fd3 g6 16.f3 Fb6 17.Rh1 Tae8 18.Tg1 f5 19.f4 e4 20.Fe2 Te7 21.c4 Tee8 22.c5 Fa5 23.Cb1 Cb4 24.Dd2 Da4 25.b3 Dd7 26.a3 Cc6 27.b4 Fxb4 28.axb4 Ta8 29.Dc3 Ce7 30.Cd2 Tae8 31.Ta2 h6 32.Tga1 Td8 33.Fh4 Tb8 34.Db3 c6 35.Ta3 Tbe8 36.Ta5 Rh7 37.Dc2 Cg8 38.Dc3 Dc7 39.T5a3 Fd7 40.Dc2 Cf6 41.Da4 Fe6 42.Db3 Tc8 43.Ta5 Tce8 44.Dc2 Fd7 45.Dc3 Te6 46.Db2 1/2-1/2

[Steve B]

Hi Steve,

Well, I am not a complete purist (haven't been fully converted yet ) But, I am getting closer as time passes

A couple which I absolutely do not regret getting but which I know you would really tut at are Steinitz 4 Mhz and Steinitz Encore 4 Mhz. The temptation to see a Steinitz 4MHz module actually work as a 4 MHz and actually play normal at 4 MHz (not speeded up quarz) was too much for an easily tempted person like me

Hey Nick
i can understand that really
Applied Concepts(Destiny) did have plans to release a 4 Mhz unit called the Mega-4 but sadly went belly up before they brought it to market
so i would call this situation where you are in possession of a couple of 4 Mhz units as ...
Guilty but with a reasonable explanation Regards
Steve

[Adam Hair]

Hi Steve. I do not see separate book modules in what I downloaded.

Also included in what I downloaded are MM IV, Glascow, MM Rebel5, and
MM50. Unfortunately, only the MM V and MM IV ROMs were included.

As far as emulator vs real thing, I wish that I had the real thing

Hi Adam,

You might be right. There was a lot of discussions posted at the time when they came out and I thought I read it as MMV HG550 but perhaps not.

ps... at higher speed I have seen good results posted for the MMIV. I think Steve even played against one once in a Tournament which ran at 18 MHz. So you should include it in your test it might actually surprise us and be a little stronger than the MMV.


Regards

Nick

I'm plan to included both into the rating list I'm working on. The games
I have ran so far have been on my computer at work, just to see if I could
make the emulators run properly. Hopefully they will run on my computers
at home. They have newer processors and have Windows XP x64 installed.
There have been some older Winboard engines that I haven't been able
to run on those computers.

Even so, I am and will play more games with MM V and MM IV on my
work computer.

[Spacious_Mind]

good memory Nick
yes i operated the Saitek Sparc with 4MB(hash table ram) in the Paris 08 tournamnt agaisnt the MMIV overclocked to run at 18 Mhz

the Sparc was actually up a piece but the position was very closed ..the Sparc could not make any progress at the TC of 30 seconds per move so i offered a draw in order that the tournament could proceed to the next round

here is the game from the event..


15) Saitek Sparc 4MB,30s/move - Mephisto MMIV 18MHz,30s/move [D02]
Paris 2008 Saints (4), 18.05.2008


1.d4 Cf6 2.Cf3 d5 3.Ff4 Cc6 4.Cc3 e6 5.Cb5 Fb4+ 6.c3 Fa5 7.e3 a6 8.Ca3 Ce4 9.Cd2 Cxd2 10.Dxd2 f6 11.Fe2 e5 12.Fg3 0-0 13.0-0 Fe6 14.Dc2 Dd7 15.Fd3 g6 16.f3 Fb6 17.Rh1 Tae8 18.Tg1 f5 19.f4 e4 20.Fe2 Te7 21.c4 Tee8 22.c5 Fa5 23.Cb1 Cb4 24.Dd2 Da4 25.b3 Dd7 26.a3 Cc6 27.b4 Fxb4 28.axb4 Ta8 29.Dc3 Ce7 30.Cd2 Tae8 31.Ta2 h6 32.Tga1 Td8 33.Fh4 Tb8 34.Db3 c6 35.Ta3 Tbe8 36.Ta5 Rh7 37.Dc2 Cg8 38.Dc3 Dc7 39.T5a3 Fd7 40.Dc2 Cf6 41.Da4 Fe6 42.Db3 Tc8 43.Ta5 Tce8 44.Dc2 Fd7 45.Dc3 Te6 46.Db2 1/2-1/2

Yep, that's the game. I remember reading about your frustration about seemingly endless pointless moves in this closed position

regards

Nick

[Steve B]

Yep, that's the game. I remember reading about your frustration about seemingly endless pointless moves in this closed position

i remember Christian was very happy when i offered the draw up a piece

we were playing the game on the Play Chess Server and i was in the middle of typing in the chat window..
OK Christian..i offer you a D...

When he suddenly typed back at lightening Speed..

DRAW ACCEPTED Regards
Steve

[Spacious_Mind]

I'm plan to included both into the rating list I'm working on. The games
I have ran so far have been on my computer at work, just to see if I could
make the emulators run properly. Hopefully they will run on my computers
at home. They have newer processors and have Windows XP x64 installed.
There have been some older Winboard engines that I haven't been able
to run on those computers.

Even so, I am and will play more games with MM V and MM IV on my
work computer.

Great! Please keep us posted with the ratings. I played back some of the games earlier and they are quite entertaining!

I just did some searching around to see where the opponents rated and I see that at least MM V is not totally at the bottom of this rating list

http://vigo.altervista.org/

Expectations are high.. hoping it will make the TOP 275 !!

Best regards

Nick

[Adam Hair]

I'm plan to included both into the rating list I'm working on. The games
I have ran so far have been on my computer at work, just to see if I could
make the emulators run properly. Hopefully they will run on my computers
at home. They have newer processors and have Windows XP x64 installed.
There have been some older Winboard engines that I haven't been able
to run on those computers.

Even so, I am and will play more games with MM V and MM IV on my
work computer.

Great! Please keep us posted with the ratings. I played back some of the games earlier and they are quite entertaining!

I just did some searching around to see where the opponents rated and I see that at least MM V is not totally at the bottom of this rating list

http://vigo.altervista.org/

Expectations are high.. hoping it will make the TOP 275 !!

Best regards

Nick

I like this idea. I'll match it against other engines found on that rating list
and we will see how it compares. I don't believe it will crack the top 275
but definitely it will make the top 300.

[Adam Hair]

After much delay, here is the complete gauntlet played by MM5:

Code: Select all

       Based off of CCRL 40/4 ratings    

Rank Name                 Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 SnailChess_4013     2099  103  103    53   86%  1792    9% 
   2 Smallpotato         2064  100  100    54   81%  1792    2% 
   3 Surprise_43-beta13  2013   91   91    53   78%  1792   13% 
   4 Warrior_103         2004   89   89    54   77%  1792   13% 
   5 Smash-nosmp         1989   90   90    54   74%  1792    7% 
   6 Clueless            1969   87   87    52   73%  1792   15% 
   7 Tamerlane02         1910   80   80    54   67%  1792   22% 
   8 Adamant1.7          1878   86   86    52   61%  1792    6% 
   9 Embracer_112        1874   80   80    53   61%  1792   21% 
  10 Grizzly1401b        1855   85   85    53   58%  1792    6% 
  11 DChess1_0_2         1814   80   80    50   53%  1792   26% 
  12 MM5                 1792   18   18  1138   46%  1824   15% 
  13 TSCP181             1791   83   83    51   50%  1792   14% 
  14 Elf                 1783   81   81    54   49%  1792   13% 
  15 Beaches             1732   80   80    51   41%  1792   24% 
  16 MM4                 1727   81   81    51   41%  1792   20% 
  17 Bace_045            1705   82   82    50   38%  1792   20% 
  18 Storm               1703   84   84    50   38%  1792   16% 
  19 Needle_0531         1687   82   82    49   35%  1792   29% 
  20 Pentagon_12         1682   81   81    50   34%  1792   28% 
  21 LarsenVB            1661   83   83    50   31%  1792   26% 
  22 Yawce016            1599   96   96    50   28%  1792    0% 
  23 Nero_61             1498  104  104    50   15%  1792   10% 

Code: Select all

12 MM5                        :  1138 (+441,=174,-523), 46.4 %

Elf                           :  54 (+ 24,=  7,- 23), 50.9 %
Grizzly1401b                  :  53 (+ 21,=  3,- 29), 42.5 %
Embracer_112                  :  53 (+ 15,= 11,- 27), 38.7 %
MM4                           :  51 (+ 25,= 10,- 16), 58.8 %
TSCP181                       :  51 (+ 22,=  7,- 22), 50.0 %
Yawce016                      :  50 (+ 36,=  0,- 14), 72.0 %
Beaches                       :  51 (+ 24,= 12,- 15), 58.8 %
Warrior_103                   :  54 (+  9,=  7,- 38), 23.1 %
SnailChess_4013               :  53 (+  5,=  5,- 43), 14.2 %
Smash-nosmp                   :  54 (+ 12,=  4,- 38), 25.9 %
Clueless                      :  52 (+ 10,=  8,- 34), 26.9 %
Tamerlane02                   :  54 (+ 12,= 12,- 30), 33.3 %
Adamant1.7                    :  52 (+ 19,=  3,- 30), 39.4 %
Surprise_43-beta13            :  53 (+  8,=  7,- 38), 21.7 %
Smallpotato                   :  54 (+ 10,=  1,- 43), 19.4 %
Storm                         :  50 (+ 27,=  8,- 15), 62.0 %
DChess1_0_2                   :  50 (+ 17,= 13,- 20), 47.0 %
Bace_045                      :  50 (+ 26,= 10,- 14), 62.0 %
LarsenVB                      :  50 (+ 28,= 13,-  9), 69.0 %
Needle_0531                   :  49 (+ 25,= 14,- 10), 65.3 %
Nero_61                       :  50 (+ 40,=  5,-  5), 85.0 %
Pentagon_12                   :  50 (+ 26,= 14,- 10), 66.0 %

MM5 had some time forfeits that I had to adjucate.

The games can be downloaded here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tmmmjvmmg ... untlet.pgn