Spacious_Mind wrote:
Another more interesting bug is the famous H-Bug. The computer if it has the Rook on it's start position on h1 or h8 and the pawn in front of it is gone at h2 or h7, it will sometimes instantly capture anything in its path along the h-column. When it happens it will invariably lose the game. It, happens rarely, but when it does, it is normally catastrophic. The current theory of why it does that sometimes seems to be that if the opponent plays a move that the program did not see coming in it's permanent brain then, the bug occurs and it instantly moves the h-rook up the h-column path!
Hi Nick
i think the infamous H-Bug is level dependent
IIRC i dont think the bug rears its ugly head on any of the normal playing levels or the infinite level or any Tournament levels..etc.etc
i think the bug appears only on the fun and fixed ply levels?
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve,
No it happens in the average time settings. I have seen it happen at both 30 seconds and 3 minutes. This particular game since the Centurion was overclocked it was playing at 1 minute per move average time.
What would be interesting is to play back some of the moves in which the error occurs with Ponder Off and see if the h-bug still happens. I think probably will occur again.
If you replay the above game, you can see that Centurion had two previous opportunities for the Bug to occur but didn't play it. It was only after the rook move to h5 that it responded instantly with the capture.
Spacious_Mind wrote:I know this is mainly an engine Forum, and perhaps a little off topic, but I was just curious about how many Members here still have a dedicated computer and if they still from time to time play with them.
I also have the same question for anyone who still possesses and uses old Home Computers from time to time to play chess or even other games or programs.
I know most of us Baby Boomers grew up with these these and I am just curious about who else sometimes reminisces about the 80's computer boom and then pulls out their old home computer or dedicated chess computer for a game or two.
I collect Dedicated Chess Computers and therefore I have lots of them, but I also love old Home Computers of which I also have quite a good collection ... Ataris, Commodores, Apple, Sinclair, Tandy, Texas Instruments etc... with pretty much all the chess software that was ever made for these.
So anyway this post is to hear from people who still tinker with the oldies of our youth from time to time ....... as well hearing about what first influenced your youth.
My first dedicated computer was a Novag Chess Champion MK III, which I bought out of hard saved apprenticeship money while I lived in Germany in 1979. I remember that it was expensive at the time and so very weak . I used to let it take 24 hours to play a move hoping that it would be stronger but it wasn't. It used to take me a month or so to play a game..
My first computer was a Sinclair Spectrum 48K, it was horrible (nowadays I dont mind it), the keypad was horrible, therefore after a couple of days I took it back to the store, making some excuses and upgraded it to a Commodore 64. I think the Spectrum 48 back then cost GBP 99 whereas the C64 cost GBP 199. I really loved the C64. A couple of years later the Amiga came out which I then bought next and still is my all time favorite. I also loved the Sinclair QL which I bought at around the same time as the Amiga. The QL was great with it's unique Microdrive system, but unfortunately there was never really much software available for it. I did however use it all the time for business purposes because it had a great spreadsheet and wordprocessing package that came with it. Also of course for a while it also had the best chess program since Psion Chess first came out for the QL.
Anyway that is my introduction to this Post. Hopefully you will use this to share some of your first experiences.
Best regards
Nick
I have Mephisto MMV, but I'm not playing with it because I have problem with a charger.
BTW, does anyone know who is programmer of that module? (Lang?, Schroeder?)
Spacious_Mind wrote:
Another more interesting bug is the famous H-Bug. The computer if it has the Rook on it's start position on h1 or h8 and the pawn in front of it is gone at h2 or h7, it will sometimes instantly capture anything in its path along the h-column. When it happens it will invariably lose the game. It, happens rarely, but when it does, it is normally catastrophic. The current theory of why it does that sometimes seems to be that if the opponent plays a move that the program did not see coming in it's permanent brain then, the bug occurs and it instantly moves the h-rook up the h-column path!
Hi Nick
i think the infamous H-Bug is level dependent
IIRC i dont think the bug rears its ugly head on any of the normal playing levels or the infinite level or any Tournament levels..etc.etc
i think the bug appears only on the fun and fixed ply levels?
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve,
No it happens in the average time settings. I have seen it happen at both 30 seconds and 3 minutes. This particular game since the Centurion was overclocked it was playing at 1 minute per move average time.
What would be interesting is to play back some of the moves in which the error occurs with Ponder Off and see if the h-bug still happens. I think probably will occur again.
If you replay the above game, you can see that Centurion had two previous opportunities for the Bug to occur but didn't play it. It was only after the rook move to h5 that it responded instantly with the capture.
So there has to be something that triggers it.
best regards
Nick
well i just pulled a Centurion off the shelf(not overclocked) and i can only duplicate the bug on the Fun levels and the Ply levels
on any of the other levels it will make a different more reasonable move
however i was working just from the position and not entering the moves from scratch
ill try by entering the moves next(although i dont see what difference that will make)
Stay Tuned Regards
Steve
Spacious_Mind wrote:
Another more interesting bug is the famous H-Bug. The computer if it has the Rook on it's start position on h1 or h8 and the pawn in front of it is gone at h2 or h7, it will sometimes instantly capture anything in its path along the h-column. When it happens it will invariably lose the game. It, happens rarely, but when it does, it is normally catastrophic. The current theory of why it does that sometimes seems to be that if the opponent plays a move that the program did not see coming in it's permanent brain then, the bug occurs and it instantly moves the h-rook up the h-column path!
Hi Nick
i think the infamous H-Bug is level dependent
IIRC i dont think the bug rears its ugly head on any of the normal playing levels or the infinite level or any Tournament levels..etc.etc
i think the bug appears only on the fun and fixed ply levels?
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve,
No it happens in the average time settings. I have seen it happen at both 30 seconds and 3 minutes. This particular game since the Centurion was overclocked it was playing at 1 minute per move average time.
What would be interesting is to play back some of the moves in which the error occurs with Ponder Off and see if the h-bug still happens. I think probably will occur again.
If you replay the above game, you can see that Centurion had two previous opportunities for the Bug to occur but didn't play it. It was only after the rook move to h5 that it responded instantly with the capture.
So there has to be something that triggers it.
best regards
Nick
well i just pulled a Centurion off the shelf(not overclocked) and i can only duplicate the bug on the Fun levels and the Ply levels
on any of the other levels it will make a different more reasonable move
however i was working just from the position and not entering the moves from scratch
ill try by entering the moves next(although i dont see what difference that will make)
Stay Tuned Regards
Steve
OK
entering the moves i get the same results
bug will only rear its ugly head on the Fun and Ply levels
all other levels and no bug
most common move seems to be Qg5(which is another howler)
Bugged Regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Karlo Bala wrote:
I have Mephisto MMV, but I'm not playing with it because I have problem with a charger.
BTW, does anyone know who is programmer of that module? (Lang?, Schroeder?)
Hi Karlo,
MMV is Ed Schroeder. What do you mean by you have problem with a charger?
Best regards
Nick
Thanks for information!
I said a charger but I wanted to say an adapter. I'm not 100% sure but I think that problem is between adapter cable and the jack on computer. I didn't try for a long time. Maybe I should try with a batteries.
Steve B wrote:
entering the moves i get the same results
bug will only rear its ugly head on the Fun and Ply levels
all other levels and no bug
most common move seems to be Qg5(which is another howler)
Bugged Regards
Steve
OK
after about 3 minutes the Centurion changes to the far more reasonable c6 scoring the position +.2 in whites favor
Steve B wrote:
well i just pulled a Centurion off the shelf(not overclocked) and i can only duplicate the bug on the Fun levels and the Ply levels
on any of the other levels it will make a different more reasonable move
however i was working just from the position and not entering the moves from scratch
ill try by entering the moves next(although i dont see what difference that will make)
Stay Tuned Regards
Steve
OK
entering the moves i get the same results
bug will only rear its ugly head on the Fun and Ply levels
all other levels and no bug
most common move seems to be Qg5(which is another howler)
Bugged Regards
Steve
... ok I will try and find the the positions in which it occurred with me before also tomorrow. I know I kept the games, just have to find them. Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this bug
Karlo Bala wrote:
I have Mephisto MMV, but I'm not playing with it because I have problem with a charger.
BTW, does anyone know who is programmer of that module? (Lang?, Schroeder?)
Hi Karlo,
MMV is Ed Schroeder. What do you mean by you have problem with a charger?
Best regards
Nick
Thanks for information!
I said a charger but I wanted to say an adapter. I'm not 100% sure but I think that problem is between adapter cable and the jack on computer. I didn't try for a long time. Maybe I should try with a batteries.
Spacious_Mind wrote:
Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this bug
Watching movies regards
Nick
Perhaps we can figure out a way to override the bug
I never really paid much attention to it but now seems like as good a time as any
some protocol for activating the bug...then once activated starting a new game without the bug ...
perhaps if we initiate the fun level bug(which generates "Bizarro World" moves on any level) in combo with the H bug ..this might exterminate the bug and then a game can be played?
some combination like that..