CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

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Don
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Don »

michiguel wrote: I do not believe there is any philosophical difference with human chess. Opening theory is super critical, if both players "agree" to battle on a very popular and contended opening. If one of them chooses to deviate early, the importance of opening preparation diminishes. I think that it is a mistake to think that having a "killer book" is a safe advantage. Killer books can die by the sword, since they are playing by the sword. Once you start playing that game, yes, a good book is not enough, you need something even better. IMHO, that is why there is a perception that a book is too critical.

What it is always important (same as humans) is to tailor the book to the style of the engine, and no public book will do that (coming back to the point I was trying to make before).

Miguel
I agree with everything you said.

We try to give Komodo a balanced style of play but of course that is impossible. We basically want the program to not be too weak in any particular opening or type of game and we also want the evaluations to appear realistic. But of course it has strengths and weaknesses like any other program and we don't fully succeed.

When we test we use a huge variety of openings and they are very shallow so that the program is out of book as soon as possible while still producing variety. If you don't do this your program is not taught to play the openings as every game would be starting in the middle game.
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Harvey Williamson
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Harvey Williamson »

garybelton wrote:
Any Cluster will do I have already said if you want the CTG that played in Spain instead we can probably arrange it.
Cheers please email to garybelton27@gREMOVEmail.com.
Ask me again when you purchase H13.
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pedrox
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by pedrox »

michiguel wrote:
pedrox wrote:It is unfair not to allow book public and allow to use databases of millions of games managed by a GUI like ChessBase to create a book and use an adapter of company Aquarium.

The engines of second and third division as well as not to have good opening books because usually good book creators are interested in powerful engines, they will be forced to use bad books created by their own programmers. Maybe too much work for a tournament, maybe this will make fewer entries.

Pedro
As an author of a non-top engine, I may prefer to face Jeroen Noomen only *once* in a tournament. Mostly, because it is extremely boring also to deal with the same book over and over again. Second, I do not think that having the burden to create your own book is a valid reason to allow multiplication of the same book in a tournament. It is part of the challenge! You can create a decent general automated book that will allow you to compete. For a non-top engine, the book is generally the least of the problems.

Miguel
CCRL and CEGT untested own books. Chesswar and Webc allow public books. Playing in the World Cup is allowed with a public book.

I understand that you want to play once against Jeroen Noomen, I also prefer to compete with books created by the programmers themselves, not with books created by specialists.

You do not want to compete against several engines using a public book of Jeroen Noomen but DanaSah next year will have to compete against several engines using your own tablebases. Endgames with tablebases are not bored? :)

But do I need to make an new opening book to play only in news CCT?

Pedro
Last edited by pedrox on Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
garybelton
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

Give me the hardware and I play 1.a3 and see what happens


You deserve a prize. Now you are talking! Limit the books in some fashion and it's good game on. I suggested to Sjeng they play 1.b4 though. It's quite hard to mandate folks to only play 1.a3 or 1.b4 though, much easier to say "only X moves from book are allowed". I could probably find some 1.a3 games where really weak engine+strong book beat strong hardware+weak book .. I can try if you want :)
garybelton
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

Jeez I should have read the unreadable fine print of your offer :) I can only encourage all registered owners of H12 to request this book.
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Harvey Williamson
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Harvey Williamson »

garybelton wrote:Jeez I should have read the unreadable fine print of your offer :) I can only encourage all registered owners of H12 to request this book.
Here it is from the previous page:
The Spain one - if you want that instead probably - it is out of date now - the one we used for CCT is much more up to date. It is also incredibly small so you may feel cheated when you receive it - it is not a stand alone book.
garybelton
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

I'll take the old book. Send it! I thought the reason you weren't sending it was that I was not a registered owner of H12, which you didn't mention was a prerequisite in your initial offer to send it to me, thus the comment about unreadable fine print and suggesting that registered H12 owners ask you for it.
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Harvey Williamson
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Harvey Williamson »

garybelton wrote:I'll take the old book. Send it! I thought the reason you weren't sending it was that I was not a registered owner of H12, which you didn't mention was a prerequisite in your initial offer to send it to me, thus the comment about unreadable fine print and suggesting that registered H12 owners ask you for it.
I guess you really did not read here is the full post:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
garybelton wrote:
H13 will have a book that will be at least the one we used in CCT - probably more up to date.
Will you sell your actual WCCC book with H13?
The Spain one - if you want that instead probably - it is out of date now - the one we used for CCT is much more up to date. It is also incredibly small so you may feel cheated when you receive it - it is not a stand alone book.
garybelton
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by garybelton »

Yes it wasn't completely obvious but I now see you did write that you would sell the Spain one, but you didn't say how much for .. or is it true that you would give it to anyone who bought H12? It's not 100% clear to me.
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Harvey Williamson
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Re: CCT: New rules for CCT Events #2

Post by Harvey Williamson »

garybelton wrote:Yes it wasn't completely obvious but I now see you did write that you would sell the Spain one, but you didn't say how much for .. or is it true that you would give it to anyone who bought H12? It's not 100% clear to me.
Then I guess you can not read or are just trolling.