Naum 4.1 crashes in testgames!?

[Jouni]

I have seen 2 - 3 times, that Naum 4.1 64b single crashes under F10 GUI.
When I have played 20 games test matches after 3-4 games Naum 4.1 has stopped and lost remaining games with time Is there other observations? I remember seeing something like this in CSS forum.
(My test games were with ponder on). No crashes with other engines!

Jouni

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Jouni,

I wrote that!
In CSS Forum for a while (after Naum 4.1 release).

I am playing on two rating lists.

First one is a blitz rating list (game in 5 minutes) on Shredder 12 GUI and AMD Hardware.

SCHACHWELT (click on SWCR blitz)
http://www.schach-welt.de/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=90

Last month I try to add Naum 4.1 in the blitz list. If Naum 4.1 lost on time the GUI hold on (clock stands on 0:00) and the next game don't started. So I am thinking Naum crashes but this is wrong.

I forget the Shredder Classic GUI option:
Extras / Optionen / Etiquette: Zeitüberschreitung reklarmieren

in English:
Extras / Optionen / Etiquette: Complaint lost on time

The reason the GUI do nothing after a lost on time game.

I played 300 Naum 4.1 games for this blitz list.
In 31 of this games Naum lost on time.

So I am thinking Naum 4.1 have a problem with the time control "Game in 5" or with the AMD hardware. I delete Naum 4.1 on the tourney and added again Naum 4.0. After 360 games no problems, all works fine.

Later I set Naum 4.1 in SWCR main rating list.
40 moves in 10 minutes, on 3 fast Intel systems.

After 720 SWCR games I had in 8 games the same "lost on time" problem. Nothing to do with hardware (Intel / AMD) or the time control (game in 5 or 40 monves in 10 minutes).

Since 2 days I set the Shredder GUI option "complaint lost on time" on and now ... it seems ... all works fine. Shredder GUI started the next game if Naum 4.1 lost on time. My main problem, because I am only 4 days in the week at home, and after the "lost on time" games no games will be played.

After all:
Naum 4.1 seems to have a problem with lose on time games. I am absolutley sure.

Here my statistics:

300 games with "Game in 5"
31x lost on time

720 games with "40 moves in 10 minutes"
8x lost on time

Statistiscs for other programs.

Naum 4.0
No problems after more games in both lists.

Hiarcs 12.1 Sharpen PV
1x lost on time, 40 in 10

Loop 13.6
2x lost on time, 40 in 10
1x lost on time, game in 5

Junior 2010
4x windows crashes with Game in 5
no problems with 40 in 10

Critter 0.52b
1x windows cash with 40 in 10

Thats all !!!!!!!
After more as 21.000 games !!!

After 13.100 games with "40 in 10"
After 8.500 games with "game in 5 minutes"

I mailed the Naum programmer the information. But its not easy to find a problem. Perhaps I have a problem with Nalimov endgame tablebases, on the other hand, no problems with other engines and no problems with Naum 4.0.

I wonder i read your message.
Because no other users seems to have this problems

I used:
Windows XP Professional, 32-Bit, 1 Core, ponder = on
In all systems are ASUS mainbords, I think I have very good hardware and the configurations of the systems are OK, no problems with other programs, chess programs at all.

Best
Frank

PS:
The programmer wrote me that he changed the time management from version 4.0 to 4.1. He sent me Naum 4.1 with the time management from Naum 4.0. But I have with this version the same problems.

And now ...
You wrote you had the the problem under Fritz 12 GUI with the x64 version. I played on an other system (have 9 systems) with the x64 version test games on Fritz 12 GUI and don't see any games with "lost on time" with version 4.1. All reported problems I have under Shredder Classic 4 GUI with the w32 version of Naum 4.1.

SWCR runs with w32 versions, because the most players don't have a x64 operating system (means for the customers of the chess magazine I wrote more interesting).

Best
Frank

[Wolfgang]

Hi Frank,

it seems that this is only a problem with 32bit. This is the version Alex mainly worked on. Maybe he built in a problem?!

The reason I say this is because I played very much games with 64bit and had absolutely no problems with time losses, independent from hardware (4CPU, 1CPU, Intel, AMD), time control (40/20, 40/3) and GUI (Shredder Classic, Arena, Chessprogram10).

The option "Complaint lose on time" under Classic-GUI is turned off here as well as under Arena which has a similar option ("Zeitüberschreitung beachten").

Best wishes
Wolfgang

PS: It's boring without you at CSS-Forum, please come back...

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi,

I am sure the Naum programmer is thinking I am loopy
After all my mails in bad English with reporting the problem.

Especially no other chess friends seem to have such a problem.

I try a lot:
Using Kaspersky Internet Security on all systems. I deactivated the security software but have the same problem. I deactivated a lot of windows services, only 16 threads are running on the test systems (Intel / AMD) but I have the same problem.

I try it on my Notebook "Intel 7300 processor with 2GHz, Dual Core", x64 Vista Ultimate ins installed, the same problem.

The Naum programmer wrote me, perpaps the nalimov endgame tablebases. I check the databases with Wilhelm, all is OK. Hard disk on all computers are OK.

I will try Naum 4.1 without Nalimov. Perhaps this solved the problem (not tryed yet).

Best
Frank

Again: I have this problem on 6 different machines I try it out.

1. Intel 4600 Dual Core
2. Intel 8400 Dual Core
3. Intel 7300 Dual Core with x64
4. Intel Q9950 Quad Core
5. Intel Q6600 Quad Core with x64
6. AMD 4600, socket 939, Dual Core

Only the Intel 4600 is overclocked but works perfectly.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hello Wolfgang,

possible, I have no problems with the x64 version too (tested the x64 version only under Fritz 12 GUI). But Jouni seems to have now this problem with x64 and Fritz 12 GUI.

Crazy 1

Crazy 2 is ...
Naum 4.1 w32 seems to be a very little bit stronger as Naum 4.1 x64
Same for Junior 2010. Think so after the games I have.

If the Naum programmer read my message in CCC I will get the darkly red card. Aleksander is not happy with my person, and the mails I wrote, SORRY Alex.

I think the "lost on time" problem could be three possible reasons:

- only with 32-Bit version (but why Jouni have the same problems with x64).
- Ponder = on
- my games are played up to mate, perhaps a possible reason.

CSS Forum:
I got many mails from CSS members. All are positive with the wish that I come back. Thats nice, thanks for it.

But after all, I believe that to many persons have a problem with my name. The silence of this forum is in danger if I write again I can life with it, have a lot things to do on SCHACHWELT webpage.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Wolfgang,

BTW: Critter 0.52b

In SWCR Blitz Critter is playing with 2.640 ELO after around 440 games.
After 350 games in SWCR 40 in 10 Critter is playing with 2.590 ELO.

Crazy too.

Such a situation (50 ELO more) I saw only with Hiarcs 12.1. Hiarcs 12.1 is also clearly stronger in blitz. Rybka and Onno too, but no 50 ELO. I am searching today a long time for a reason.

Perhaps I should wait of the next 350 Critter 0.52b games with 40 in 10. Do you saw it too, means that Critter is clearly stronger in blitz?

Today I will look in other ratings, like CEGT, CCRL ...
The problem I have so far

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi,

in this minutes, Critter 0.52b crashed the second time.

1x on Intel 4600
1x on Intel 8400

But Shredder GUI ignored the crash and Critter is only 1x in memory, for the still running game after the crash.

Such I crash I have now:

4x with Junior 2010 (game in 5 minutes).
2x with Critter 0.52b (40 moves in 10 minutes).

Not so important ...

Critter played 374 games and only on two times crashes.
On the AMD hardware (game in 5) no crashes after 400 games.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Sorry Wolfgang,

could you look in Arena pgn file.
Arena will set in the own PGN file the information "lost on time". This helps a lot. I am sure you checked this, if not could you look in your Naum games directly with Arena's own database option?

Best
Frank

PS:
But I am sure you know it.

[Werner]

Hi Frank,
I am just testing Deep Fritz 12 4CPU on my quad. Next opponent now will be Naum 4.1 w32 1CPU - now let´s see what happens here.

And: before I send all games to the admin I alway check for the comments "time" or "Zeit".

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi,

now I checked with ChessBase 10 again all my SWCR games with "Lost on time". All is OK but the actual testing engines seems to make problems.

Critter 0.52b w32 under Shredder 12 GUI lost from 370 games on different system in endgames on 9 times with "lost on time", all of this games in clearly remis positions. No problems in 80 games under Fritz 12 GUI.

So it seems the second SWCR engine with time lost problems (after Naum 4.1).

Twisted Logic 20100131x lost from 379 games also one game on time. Could be a random.

I corrected the game results.

Actual situation:
http://www.schach-welt.de/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=90

Best
Frank