World Chess Championship

[kingliveson]

If people think that white can win after 23...Bd7 then they are free to post the way that they can win with the white pieces against chess engines after this move.

I am not against human analysis when it is checked with chess engines but I do not see the point in saying that anand broke basic rules without showing how to punish him for that.


Serious human analysis is an analysis that shows how to win with white
against chess engines after 23...Bd7 in case that white is winning.

Uri

But Uri, Anand did not play Bd7! So He did not Develop all his Pieces, And He Did Play His King to F7, Bring his king into and Open board with Heavy Pieces still on the Board. This is a FACT.

I think when Anand played F7 on move 23, he probably thought that Topalov had blundered and he was going on the attack. Unfortunately he had a trapped Rook. But as for the opening...it was ok just by analysis and going through a huge book.

[AdminX]

If people think that white can win after 23...Bd7 then they are free to post the way that they can win with the white pieces against chess engines after this move.

I am not against human analysis when it is checked with chess engines but I do not see the point in saying that anand broke basic rules without showing how to punish him for that.


Serious human analysis is an analysis that shows how to win with white
against chess engines after 23...Bd7 in case that white is winning.

Uri

But Uri, Anand did not play Bd7! So He did not Develop all his Pieces, And He Did Play His King to F7, Bring his king into and Open board with Heavy Pieces still on the Board. This is a FACT.

Ted as I've learned long ago, facts don't impress around here or anywhere else for that matter...sigh...

So true ...

[Uri Blass]

If people think that white can win after 23...Bd7 then they are free to post the way that they can win with the white pieces against chess engines after this move.

I am not against human analysis when it is checked with chess engines but I do not see the point in saying that anand broke basic rules without showing how to punish him for that.


Serious human analysis is an analysis that shows how to win with white
against chess engines after 23...Bd7 in case that white is winning.

Uri

But Uri, Anand did not play Bd7! So He did not Develop all his Pieces, And He Did Play His King to F7, Bringing his king into and Open board with Heavy Pieces still on the Board. This is a FACT.

Ted
The fact that anand did not play Bd7 is clearly irrelevant because
I did not discuss about the game but defended Franklin's claim

"Anand's opening was quite ok (you could almost say perfect) until he blundered on move 23."

Terry responded to Franklin:

"How about human analysis? Ted is right, Anand broke two basic rules in chess and lost."

It seems to me that Terry does not agree with Franklin and it is the reason for my post.

Uri

[Terry McCracken]

If people think that white can win after 23...Bd7 then they are free to post the way that they can win with the white pieces against chess engines after this move.

I am not against human analysis when it is checked with chess engines but I do not see the point in saying that anand broke basic rules without showing how to punish him for that.


Serious human analysis is an analysis that shows how to win with white
against chess engines after 23...Bd7 in case that white is winning.

Uri

But Uri, Anand did not play Bd7! So He did not Develop all his Pieces, And He Did Play His King to F7, Bringing his king into and Open board with Heavy Pieces still on the Board. This is a FACT.

Ted
The fact that anand did not play Bd7 is clearly irrelevant because
I did not discuss about the game but defended Franklin's claim

"Anand's opening was quite ok (you could almost say perfect) until he blundered on move 23."

Terry responded to Franklin:

"How about human analysis? Ted is right, Anand broke two basic rules in chess and lost."

It seems to me that Terry does not agree with Franklin and it is the reason for my post.

Uri

I don't agree as my knowledge about chess says Franklin at least in part is wrong.

Anand put himself in a bad situation for the reasons stated. Oh, Bb7 was likely Anand's best try but it wasn't without danger after he opened his King-Side to White's heavy pieces.

[AdminX]

Game Analysis from ChessVibes:

1. d4
The move Topalov mostly choses on important occasions.
1... Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5
And this doesn't come as a surprise either; theoretically the Gruenfeld is doing very well at the moment. Besides, Anand played it twice at the Tal Memorial last year.
4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Na5 11. Bd3 b6 12. Qd2 e5 13. Bh6
13. d5 f5 14. Bg5 Qe8 15. f3 c4 16. Bc2 f4 17. Kh1 h6 18. Bh4 g5 19. Be1 Bd7 20. g3 Qh5 21. Ng1 Rf7 22. Qg2 Kh8 23. Bd1 Rg8 24. Rb1 Bf8 25. Be2 Bc5 =+ Van Wely-Kamsky, Dagomys 2008 13. dxe5 Be6 14. Rad1 Nc4 15. Bxc4 Bxc4 16. f4 Qe7 17. Qc2 Rad8 18. Rfe1 h5 19. Nc1 Qe6 20. Rd2 Bb5 21. Nb3 Qc4 22. Bf2 g5! 23. Bg3 gxf4 24. Bxf4 Qe6 25. Rd6 Rxd6 26. exd6 Qf6 27. Qf2 Qxc3 Navara-Kamsky, Sochi 2008 13. Bg5 Qd7 14. Bh6 Bxh6 15. Qxh6 f6 16. f4 Qg7 17. Qh4 exf4 18. Qxf4 Be6 19. Qf2 Rad8 20. Nf4 Bf7 21. Rad1 cxd4 22. cxd4 Rd6 Gelfand,B-Kamsky,G/Bazna ROM 2009
13... cxd4
13... f6 14. Bxg7 Kxg7 15. f4 cxd4 16. cxd4 Bg4 Li Chao-Howell, Gaziantep 2008
14. Bxg7 Kxg7 15. cxd4 exd4 16. Rac1
16. f4 f6 17. e5 (17. Rac1 Bg4 18. Ng3 Bd7 19. h4 Rc8 20. Rxc8 Bxc8 21. h5 Qe7 Cheparinov-Kamsky, Sochi 2008 ) (17. f5 Bd7 18. Nf4 Nc6 19. Bb5 Ne5 20. Qxd4 g5 21. Ne6+ Bxe6 22. Qxd8 Rfxd8 23. fxe6 Najer-Safarli, Moscow 2010 ) 17... Bd7 18. exf6+ Qxf6 19. Ng3 Kh8 20. f5 gxf5 21. Bxf5 Bxf5 22. Rxf5 Qd6 23. Raf1 Nc6 24. Ne4 Qe7 25. Qh6 Rxf5 26. Rxf5 Ne5 27. h3 Ng6 28. Rh5 Rg8 29. Nf6 Rg7 30. Nxh7 Rxh7 31. Qxg6 Qe3+ 32. Kf1 Qc1+ 33. Kf2 Qd2+ 34. Kg3 Qe3+ 35. Kh2 Qf4+ 36. Kg1 Qc1+ 1/2-1/2 Topalov,V-Kamsky,G/Sofia BUL 2009
16... Qd6
Novelty. Topalov continues with similar moves like Karjakin: f4-f5 and Rf1-f3-g3/h3. 16... Bb7 17. f4 Rc8 18. Rxc8 Qxc8 19. f5 Nc6 20. Rf3 Ne5 21. Rh3 Rh8 22. f6+ Kg8 23. Qh6 Qf8 24. Qxf8+ Kxf8 25. Nxd4 Ke8 26. Bb5+ Kd8 '=' 27. Rc3 a6 28. Ba4 b5 29. Bb3 Re8 30. Nf3 1/2-1/2 Karjakin-Carlsen, Foros 2008
17. f4 f6 18. f5 Qe5 19. Nf4 g5 20. Nh5+ Kg8 21. h4 h6 22. hxg5 hxg5 23. Rf3
White's play is quite simple: the rook to g3 and threaten Nxf6 with all sorts of nasty things to follow.
23... Kf7?
Another ten minutes. Anand was probably trying to remember his preparation correctly; it's unlikely he was out of book already. 23... Bd7 is probably the main line of the analysis that's in both players' laptops.
24. Nxf6!
Topalov is the first to come with a major blow, psychologically as well as chess-technically. It reminds of the famous Nxf7 in the Anti-Moscow against Kramnik, but also the same Nxf7! against Anand at the MTel Masters in Sofia five years ago. The difference is that here it's already winning immediately.
24... Kxf6
Vishy thought for about half an hour. In fact it was already a choice of two evils, so we have to conclude that he must have mixed up the moves somewhere - something he said himself at the press conference. Also after 24... Qxf6 25. Rh3 looks winning: 25... Kg8 (25... Rd8 26. Rc7+ Bd7 27. Rh7+ ) 26. Rh5 Bd7 27. e5! Qxe5 28. Re1 Qf6 29. Rxg5+ followed by 30.Rg6.
25. Rh3
Played without thinking, and Topalov immediately stood up an walked away. He didn't want to admit it during the press conference, and called it "a natural sacrifice", but we think it's just very impressive preparation.
25... Rg8
25... Bd7 26. Rh6+ Kf7 27. Rh7+ Ke8 28. Qxg5 followed by 29.Be2
26. Rh6+ Kf7 27. Rh7+ Ke8
27... Kf6 28. Rcc7 27... Rg7 28. Rxg7+ Kxg7 29. Qxg5+ Kf8 30. Qd8+ Qe8 31. Qf6+ Qf7 32. Qh8+ Qg8 33. Qxd4 +-
28. Rcc7
28. Qb4 Bd7 29. f6! Qxf6 30. Bb5! Rd8 31. Rc7 +-
28... Kd8 29. Bb5 Qxe4 30. Rxc8+
and Anand resigned because of 30. Rxc8+ Kxc8 (30... Rxc8 31. Rd7+ Ke8 32. Rxd4+ ) 31. Qc1+ Nc6 32. Bxc6 Qe3+ 33. Qxe3 dxe3 34. Bxa8 1-0

Source: http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/world ... more-24507

[Dan Honeycutt]

Anand's opening was quite ok (you could almost say perfect) until he blundered on move 23.

Franklin if you say move so-and-so was a blunder and support that with machine analysis I'd like to see two cases. First the machine's take before the faulty move just as you did. Then the machine's analysis after the faulty move showing, presumably, a significantly worse score.

Best
Dan H.

[Eelco de Groot]

Thanks for posting Ted! It seems likely that 23.Rf3 may have been not new for both players. It was Anand who played the novelty Qd6 and Topalov playing a psychological game, showing that nothing can surprise him, that Anand is outbooked. It probably isn't true; if Anand had remembered the right move the position and game would have been even. If Kamski had the same position on his board already for his match against Topalov then I think the two finalists were really playing current "home-theory". And then to blunder, throwing the whole game away, must be very painful for Anand. It is certainly not showing that he has acclimatized well.

I am currently analyzing if the computer can find 18...Qe5 on its own. It was not easy but the computer succeeds after a restart and going to multi-PV. The evaluation is still fully even here which from Anands viewpoint would have been a successful opening, any GM would be pleased with a 0.00 score with Black and still in your own preparation.

[Event "World Chess Championship"]
[Site "Sofia/Bulgaria"]
[Date "2010.04.24"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Black "Anand, Viswanathan"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2805"]
[BlackElo "2787"]
[EventDate "2010.04.24"]
[PlyCount "59"]
[EventType "match"]
[EventRounds "12"]
[EventCountry "BUL"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Ne2
Nc6 9.Be3 O-O 10.O-O Na5 11.Bd3 b6 12.Qd2 e5 13.Bh6
( 13.d5 )
13...cxd4 14.Bxg7 Kxg7 15.cxd4 exd4 16.Rac1 Qd6 17.f4 f6 18.f5 Qe5
( { [Rainbow Serpent 1.7.1s(dc) Build 010] 23:+0.00} 18...Qe5 19.
Nf4 g5 20.Nd5 Rf7 21.h4 h6 22.hxg5 hxg5 23.Rf3 Bb7 24.Rh3 Bxd5 25.
exd5 Rh8 26.Rxh8 Kxh8 27.Re1 Qxd5 28.Re8+ Kg7 29.Qe2 Qd7 30.Bb5
Nc6 31.Ra8 Rf8 32.Rxf8 Kxf8 33.Qe4 d3 34.Qxc6 Qd4+ 35.Kf1 Qa1+ 36.
Kf2 Qd4+ 37.Kf1 )
( { [Rainbow Serpent 1.7.1s(dc) Build 010] 23:+0.20} 18...Bd7 19.
Ba6 Rae8 20.fxg6 hxg6 21.Nxd4 Kg8 22.Qe3 Rf7 23.Rcd1 Qe5 24.Nf3
Qxe4 25.Qxe4 Rxe4 26.Bd3 Rg4 27.h3 Rf4 28.Bxg6 Re7 29.Kh2 Kg7 30.
Bc2 Rc4 31.Rfe1 Kf8 32.Rxe7 Kxe7 33.Bg6 Ra4 34.Kg3 Be6 35.Rc1 Rxa2
36.Rc7+ Bd7 37.Rxa7 )
( { [Rainbow Serpent 1.7.1s(dc) Build 010] 24:+0.00} 18...Qe5 19.
Nf4 g5 20.Nd5 Rf7 21.h4 h6 22.hxg5 hxg5 23.Rf3 Bb7 24.Rh3 Bxd5 25.
exd5 Rh8 26.Rxh8 Kxh8 27.Re1 Qxd5 28.Re8+ Kg7 29.Qe2 Qd7 30.Bb5
Nc6 31.Ra8 Rf8 32.Rxf8 Kxf8 33.Qe4 d3 34.Qxc6 Qd4+ 35.Kf1 Qa1+ 36.
Kf2 Qd4+ 37.Kf1 {Not a bad analysis from Rainbow Serpent I think.
It does not see 20. Nh5+ yet but the 0.00, and other moves being worse is okay.
This is after about 50 minutes on 1 thread, but with some restarts.
Rainbow Serpent analyzing in Scid now!})
19.Nf4 g5 20.Nh5+ Kg8 21.h4 h6 22.hxg5 hxg5 23.Rf3 Kf7 24.Nxf6 Kxf6 25.Rh3
Rg8 26.Rh6+ Kf7 27.Rh7+ Ke8 28.Rcc7 Kd8 29.Bb5 Qxe4 30.Rxc8+ 1-0

[kingliveson]

Anand's opening was quite ok (you could almost say perfect) until he blundered on move 23.

Franklin if you say move so-and-so was a blunder and support that with machine analysis I'd like to see two cases. First the machine's take before the faulty move just as you did. Then the machine's analysis after the faulty move showing, presumably, a significantly worse score.

Best
Dan H.

The Before:
[d]r1b2rk1/p7/1p3p2/n3qPpN/3pP3/3B1R2/P2Q2P1/2R3K1 b - - 0 23

23...Bd7 24.Rg3 Kf7 25.Bc4+ Nxc4 26.Rxc4 Rac8 27.Rxd4 Be8 28.Rd5 Qc7 29.Qd4 Kg8 30.Nxf6+ Rxf6 31.Qxf6 Qxg3 32.Qe6+ Kh8 33.Qxc8 Qe1+ 34.Kh2 Qh4+ 35.Kg1 Qe1+
= (0.00) Depth: 24 00:08:01 2885mN

The After:
[d]r1b2r2/p4k2/1p3p2/n3qPpN/3pP3/3B1R2/P2Q2P1/2R3K1 w - - 0 24

24.Nxf6 Qxf6 25.Rh3 Re8 26.Rc7+ Kg8 27.Rh5 Re7 28.Rxg5+ Kf7 29.Rg6 Rxc7 30.Rxf6+ Kxf6 31.Qh6+ Ke7 32.Qg7+ Kd8 33.Qf8+ Kd7 34.Qf7+ Kd8 35.Qd5+ Ke7 36.Qxa8 Nc6 37.Kf2 Nb4 38.Be2 Nc6 39.Bb5 Ne5 40.Qb8 Rc2+ 41.Ke1 Rc1+ 42.Kd2
+- (2.45 !) Depth: 22 00:07:43 2730mN

[Eraserheads]

24. Nxf6 seems to be a very hard move to find for computers. Prior to this move, my programs think that Black's position is a bit better, or the position is at least equal...However, after manually playing Nxf6, their evals change and they suddenly begin to like White's position better.

[d]r1b2r2/p4k2/1p3p2/n3qPpN/3pP3/3B1R2/P2Q2P1/2R3K1 w - - 0 24

[Dan Honeycutt]

The Before:
...
The After:

All right. You da man

Best
Dan H.