Surprise...

[geots]

Hi,

I don't think Houdini is illegal and anybody who is complaining that it's illegal is an idiot.

I would like to see the situation resolved regardless of what happens. Since it's clear that Houdini is a close derivative work of the Ippo family, there is no modern representative of the Fruit family of programs that is going to be allowed in tournaments, at least the important tournaments.

The legality of Houdini is not the issue, it would still be in violation of ICGA rules to take Ivanhoe and enter it as if it were your own.

So I don't like it when a top program cannot compete - as I have my own aspirations of being the top program and surpassing Houdini. I would feel like Karpov must have felt when Bobby Fischer refused to play. However I agree and respect the ICGA ruling - it's absolutely correct. Programs should not be allowed or disallowed based on their strength.

The solution around this is to allow one program to represent the Fruit family and that program could be Houdini. But Houdart would have to be wiling to share authorship and credit - which he is too proud to do.

It's quite ironic to me that the programmers behind the Ippo programs have this anti-capitalistic philosophy and were driven to do what they did in part because of this - and what has happened instead is that they have in turn been raped and plundered in the name of capitalism. They now have a single person who has taken their hard work and profited from it. Somehow I don't think this is what they had in mind ....

First, what can you do? Take Robert to the court? You can't hurt his sales by whinging here. You have to make something better than Houdini. Second, only the copyright holder of a GPL license can complain, this is stated clearly. Do you know exactly who published GPL Robblitto and does he care? If he doesn't, why should you?

It amazes me that your general knowledge of Russians is somewhere a couple miles south of nada. How much time have you actually spent in Russia? It is obvious you have no clue of the driving force behind the creation of the Ippo family. Who was plundered and what? Where?

This is going to sound unfair and sarcastic- but it is really a serious question, and a fair one, as I also read your psychological breakdown of Robert as well as your instructions (detailed) for identifying and dealing with con men. And thank you for the lesson on dealing with charities- lot of good info there. And thanks also for your breakdown showing us how hard it is to track charitable donations. Include with that your shrewd analysis of how a Russian's mind ticks, and well.... oh, the question:

Is there any subject that you are not an expert on?


At any rate, you mentioned the wish for Komodo (wise to go for a Japanese name- Boris or Vladimir isn't a good fit for you) to rise to the top. And it very well may. You partnered up with the right guy. At any rate, I wish you well in your attempt. Capitalism at work.

I have always liked to test an engine on 1cpu and 32-bit. And that is all I tested for CCRL. (maybe they will have sympathy for me and tell you I was the best they ever saw) That strips off all the bells and whistles, the 64-bit, the quads, the 8-cores, etc., etc. Then it is just the engine and me. It can't rely on outside help- so it better be damn well programmed. Another reason I like that choice is because my dual blew, and I cannot afford a quad. You can decide for yourself my main motive for the hardware- but the point is I thought I would get your interest for a second. Don't just humor me- I worked really hard here, and all for you. As you will see from this link I leave you- you are only about 76 elo from the top, with Stockfish, Rybka, Critter and Houdini ahead of you- but they are all bunched quite close- with enough games where I don't think the "+ or - error factor" will help much.


Personally, I think your two main worries would be whether or not Vas decides to multi-task with Cluster, and also develops Rybka 5. Tho he may not- as he is sick of people also STEALING from him.

But I said 2 worries, I think. Did I? Ah-right. Excuse my mind- it comes and goes. The 2nd worry would be what happens when Robbolito, IvanHoe and DeepSaros23j or DeepSaros23jT pose you a problem once they get enough games under their belt to make the list. At any rate, good luck to you and Larry - wish you 2 the best. Below is your link. It is quite interesting- tho as I said, or think I said (feel free to correct me on that) that it is the single cpu- 32bit list. Peruse as your time allows

http://computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040.l ... ing+list&p




gts

[bob]

I said many times that I support him because he is my friend. And I don't abandon my friends when they have tough times. And I resent your goddam lies.

Yes, VR is a really nice guy. But you should ask yourself: Is he nice because he is just a nice guy, or is he nice because he want's your money and in reality he is laughing about you because you spent more than 100 bucks for a copy of an open source engine.

Strange copy that is 350 Elo stronger.

Hello Albert,

I suppose it would be strange if it was 350 Elo weaker?

What if it was just as strong as Fruit?

I am not denying Vas' abilities but the strength improvement argument is somewhat lacking in principle.

It is a copy if it is the same strength or weaker but if the improvement is considerable then it is not a copy?

I really wanted to get away from that line of thinking because at the present day, the opposite case is being made by some - that engine A must be a copy/clone/derivative because it is super strong and it could only have gotten that super strength from Rybka.

It seems inconsistent to me.

Later.

For me copy = same. Call it an improved copy, super improved copy, improved clone, all that is fine but 350 Elo is not paying 100 dollars for a copy, it is paying 100 dollars for a program that is 350 Elo stronger than Fruit whatever the origin. You can argue that you would not have bought it if you thought it might have originated from Fruit, which is fine, but people did not pay 100 bucks for a copy, they paid 100 dollars because there was a program that was X Elo stronger than everything else.

What about this: I steal a couple of kilos of raw gold. I then spend a year forming it into an extremely intricate and attractive statuette. Did I show creativity and artistic ability? Certainly. Did I take advantage of someone else in a highly unfair way? Certainly did...

I don't follow this "OK, he copied Fabien's code, but he then improved it over a couple of years and made it 350 Elo stronger, so what he did was not a bad thing at all, it pushed CC progress forward significantly."

[Don]

It amazes me that your general knowledge of Russians is somewhere a couple miles south of nada. How much time have you actually spent in Russia? It is obvious you have no clue of the driving force behind the creation of the Ippo family. Who was plundered and what? Where?

What does Russia have to do with any of this?

What I'm talking about is on the Ippolit web site and has a .com domain - it could be coming from anywhere and it appears to be in Spanish.

Here is just one of NUMEROUS quotes:

Code: Select all

To all those who boast happily with the Revolution 's final victory and complete and total demolition of all Capitalists Rybkas implores us to the end of time! Today I am officially declaring and irrevocable for us to move forward in <<Revolución February>> by wringing their necks. 

This appears to be what you are defending. Violence, revolution and hatred. The site is filled with content like that - I can easily give you a dozen more.

You appear to be one who believes these guys must be Russian because I never mentioned that. Why are you allowed to make assumptions and then pretend I made them?

[geots]

It amazes me that your general knowledge of Russians is somewhere a couple miles south of nada. How much time have you actually spent in Russia? It is obvious you have no clue of the driving force behind the creation of the Ippo family. Who was plundered and what? Where?

What does Russia have to do with any of this?

What I'm talking about is on the Ippolit web site and has a .com domain - it could be coming from anywhere and it appears to be in Spanish.

Here is just one of NUMEROUS quotes:

Code: Select all

To all those who boast happily with the Revolution 's final victory and complete and total demolition of all Capitalists Rybkas implores us to the end of time! Today I am officially declaring and irrevocable for us to move forward in <<Revolución February>> by wringing their necks. 

This appears to be what you are defending. Violence, revolution and hatred. The site is filled with content like that - I can easily give you a dozen more.

You appear to be one who believes these guys must be Russian because I never mentioned that. Why are you allowed to make assumptions and then pretend I made them?

"This appears to be" - "I appear to be" Is there any one thing that you are sure of? One reply to me earlier- I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that you might be having a bad day. Wrong!

Because I happen to know the way a Russian's mind works as well as they do themselves means I agree with them?

I don't give a happy shit if you read something on a Spanish forum, Russian forum, or a "Mad Magazine" forum. Did you ever think a lot of it was put there just for people like you? Who don't know "up" from "down".

Lest I forget, you also "assume" a lot about Robert's motives where charities are concerned.

Larry is one of 5 or 6 people I have the most respect for in the computer chess world. But he must be a glutton for punishment- and that IS NOT a knock on him.

It doesn't, to use your favorite phrase, "appear to be". It is. Read all the forums you like, and come back to us and share your wisdom. But you have no clue who created the Ippos. I know exactly who did and why. Of course when someone is in the dark and doesn't have a clue- the first thing out of their mouth is that they don't care.

At the risk of raining on your parade- you are not "God's gift to the world."
I am not the only person to notice that you enjoy making assumptions and then using them to attempt to tear people down. And I am not the only one who has commented on it. Keep going- knock yourself out.

And be sure to keep talking down to everyone you reply to. You are one amazing piece of work.

[Terry McCracken]

It amazes me that your general knowledge of Russians is somewhere a couple miles south of nada. How much time have you actually spent in Russia? It is obvious you have no clue of the driving force behind the creation of the Ippo family. Who was plundered and what? Where?

What does Russia have to do with any of this?

What I'm talking about is on the Ippolit web site and has a .com domain - it could be coming from anywhere and it appears to be in Spanish.

Here is just one of NUMEROUS quotes:

Code: Select all

To all those who boast happily with the Revolution 's final victory and complete and total demolition of all Capitalists Rybkas implores us to the end of time! Today I am officially declaring and irrevocable for us to move forward in <<Revolución February>> by wringing their necks. 

This appears to be what you are defending. Violence, revolution and hatred. The site is filled with content like that - I can easily give you a dozen more.

You appear to be one who believes these guys must be Russian because I never mentioned that. Why are you allowed to make assumptions and then pretend I made them?

"This appears to be" - "I appear to be" Is there any one thing that you are sure of? One reply to me earlier- I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that you might be having a bad day. Wrong!

Because I happen to know the way a Russian's mind works as well as they do themselves means I agree with them?

I don't give a happy shit if you read something on a Spanish forum, Russian forum, or a "Mad Magazine" forum. Did you ever think a lot of it was put there just for people like you? Who don't know "up" from "down".

Lest I forget, you also "assume" a lot about Robert's motives where charities are concerned.

Larry is one of 5 or 6 people I have the most respect for in the computer chess world. But he must be a glutton for punishment- and that IS NOT a knock on him.

It doesn't, to use your favorite phrase, "appear to be". It is. Read all the forums you like, and come back to us and share your wisdom. But you have no clue who created the Ippos. I know exactly who did and why. Of course when someone is in the dark and doesn't have a clue- the first thing out of their mouth is that they don't care.

At the risk of raining on your parade- you are not "God's gift to the world."
I am not the only person to notice that you enjoy making assumptions and then using them to attempt to tear people down. And I am not the only one who has commented on it. Keep going- knock yourself out.

And be sure to keep talking down to everyone you reply to. You are one amazing piece of work.

Do you have to keep polluting the board and attacking program authors?

What is all this to you anyway?

What have you invested in this matter other than noise?

[sje]

This thread belongs in the Computer Chess Club: Engine Origins forum. To the moderators: please move it there. Or delete it along with all other off topic threads.