Thomas Mayer wrote:geots wrote:Thomas Mayer wrote:Hi Graham,
The Dutch Open is an official ICGA tournament, at least as far as I know. So Cocks behaviour is completely unacceptable. He directly attacks the panel that investigated in the Rybka case. And he did it in public, therefore an open letter is the logical thing programmers can do. Fair programmer competition is wanted, no cloners festival. If cloners and hackers are the future of the dutch open then be it, but without us. Period.
Greets, Thomas
Don't know much about the rules surrounding this tournament, but nowhere in the "open letter" did anyone state anything about ICGA's relationship with a "Dutch this or that" tournament. All I read was a lot of
bullshit about how Cock had "done this wrong" and "done that wrong". And how letting Rybka play would be another "done this wrong" on his list.
And he can have any opinion he chooses about the Rybka issue, but if it is in conflict with the beliefs of the panel- it would be wise to not make it public. As I see you were complaining about his public stance on the case. Would you rather he whispered his opinions in dark back-alleys?
It's a bit late for the moral high-ground attempt. The group who signed the letter saw to that. A lot of whining about this and that, but what it comes down to is: "You let Rybka enter, we aint showing up." I'm quite sure all other complaints can be overlooked.
Would I let Rybka in and chance losing all the programmers who signed the open letter? Not a chance in hell.
After the letter, I would let Rybka in and tell the programmers who signed the letter that their programs were no longer welcome.
gts
Hi George,
well, some said that an "OPEN" letter wasn't the right thing to do. I just answer to this: Cock did his statement in public, so the programmers (including me) did it as well.
Of course, Cock can include whatever he wants into the dutch open but then it's not unlikely that the dutch open will be played with one single engine.
Greets, Thomas
Let me tell you that I love your engine. With CCRL I always preferred testing the freewares, and it really was one of my 5 or 6 favorites. So much more fun to test them, because they were not as predictable as the commercials. You could always almost pick the order the comm. would finish in, but the freewares gave you more surprises. I had only wished that you had at that time been able to develop it a bit more, but when you say freeware- the word "free" in it means you gotta have a day job for sure. But I remember I had a lot of fun with the engines like yours.
OK, Thomas, let me say this so I can reply to you. I called myself seeing every name on the list, but I did not remember yours. My mistake. But that is not all. I can see no way that I don't owe you an apology for, as a group, saying I had lost a lot of respect for them as individuals mainly. Certainly you ARE NOT on a list of people I have lost respect for. There would be no reason for you to be- it's that simple. Maybe I had better look again to see if there are other mistakes I made with the list.
But there is a place where it is not so much a difference of opinion between you and me, but we are not looking at the same things. And in that respect, your agenda is entirely different from what I take umbrage with concerning the large majority of the panel. Probably the rest of them.
As far as I can tell from your reply to Graham and for sure to me, this is mostly a Cock- Thomas Mayer- Dutch disagreement. Where I have no business, my opinions have no business, and without doubt my MOUTH certainly has no business. That was not mentioned anywhere in the letter, so I had no idea.
Here is what is starting, contrary to what anyone will admit. And this is where I came in. The rest of the panel will have a 10 mile long list of grievances with Cock, the group and the tournament. You mention it- they will use it. I imagine they will take advantage of the "Dutch" controversy and ride it like any good horse.
When the panel decided Vas was guilty- most anyone with an IQ above double digits understands the sentence was insanityx1000. That's a "given", to borrow Hyatt's favorite word in the English language. But they ruled he was barred for eternity from ICGA events. What they failed to break the news to us concerning was they could envision a scenario where Vas would never play in a tournament of any kind. You know, use ingenuity to come up with some different reasons each time why the "list of programmers" can't deal with the tournament's organizers, officials, sponsors. The words are all interchangeable. Because they all end up in the same place: "We can overlook all that stuff or at least work it out. But as long as Vas has his engine entered, we (being the list of programmers again) cannot play."
Anyone who says that never even crossed their minds, tell them they are selling bullshit and you aint buying. For more reasons than 1, I cannot picture in my mind you being a permanent fixture in such a group. About 6 ways to describe it, but to say using strong-arm tactics to make sure they never have to deal with what they don't want to deal with in any tourn. (meaning Vas) is the one I like.
I don't quite think they realize they are heading down 5 miles of bad road.
Just for this one tournament, they are getting vocally NADA in anything that amounts to anything. And people on their side are grumbling now and saying under their breath, "it was a damn witchhunt". And poor dumb me is thinking "you just now figuring that out?"
But in the end, Thomas, the only thing that will put it to bed for good, is some organizers get a stomachful and give out what we are fond of calling in the USA, a free attitude adjustment.
Right now, there are a number of things you can say about the CC community, and it's all bad.
But it doesn't make you bad, my friend.
Best,
gts
