I don't get it...

[IWB]

why no answer and just a 'smug' reply?

Because I am a 'hypocrite' and don't care what you write!

CU
Ingo

[gerold]

The establishment's golden-boy compiler (JA) is now collaborating with Jury on the compiles, apparently even adding 64-bit support

--------------
Yet, Ippolit engines are discredited and banned...and Strelka lauded and accepted?


The hypocrisy and arbitrary standards confound the imagination!
The situation is ludicrous...and the responsibility/failure lies with the entrenched CCC 'Good-old boys' establishment.

About 18 years ago, a footballer accused of match fixing was, for reasons that I will not go into here, found not guilty in a UK criminal court. However, his claim for legal expenses received no sympathy from the judge because, in the words of the judge, “your behaviour brought suspicion on yourself”. The behaviour of those responsible for publicising Ippolit brought suspicion upon the Ippolit team. The fact that their credibility was not helped by the unsubstantiated claims made by Rajlich made the wisdom of their behaviour even more questionable.

In a field in which facts are hard to verify, complete honesty is demanded and respected. Rajlich and Houdart are perceived as being dishonest by many people and the Ippolit authors by some people. Osipov’s description of Strelka 5 is perceived to be honest. Hence the difference in reactions.

If those responsible for Ippolit have done nothing wrong, then they will be treated with greater respect if they are honest and open with the community. You seem to have knowledge about what they did that is not available to the rest of us. If you have the means to communicate with them and want to set the record straight, you might consider getting their permission to answer relevant questions.

I was saddened to read that you still feel repercussions of your past behaviour. I think that you have atoned for your sins.

Thanks for your last paragraph. Just what i needed today. hahahaha.

Best,
Gerold.

P.S. Sins.

[kranium]

Because I am a 'hypocrite'

Ingo

Agreed...

[Dave Mitchell]

You're trying to herd cats and bees, Norman. May I suggest you attract them, instead? A little fish, or honey, will get MUCH better results for you!

In the forum, you need to practice the art of polite conversation - not call people names. I know we've all done it in the past, but think about the results. Will calling Ingo a hypocrite REALLY help persuade him to test your engine?

A snowball's chance in hell, do you agree?

Ingo has given you some valuable info, however. You could use that information to your advantage, instead of letting it only jump up your blood pressure. It would require a different way of setting your mind (attitude), though. Especially while responding here on the forum.

I meant to send this to you in a PM, but it failed.

[kranium]

You're trying to herd cats and bees, Norman. May I suggest you attract them, instead? A little fish, or honey, will get MUCH better results for you!

In the forum, you need to practice the art of polite conversation - not call people names. I know we've all done it in the past, but think about the results. Will calling Ingo a hypocrite REALLY help persuade him to test your engine?

A snowball's chance in hell, do you agree?

Ingo has given you some valuable info, however. You could use that information to your advantage, instead of letting it only jump up your blood pressure. It would require a different way of setting your mind (attitude), though. Especially while responding here on the forum.

I meant to send this to you in a PM, but it failed.

Thanks Dave-

I'm not begging for any favors...and will not kiss ass to have Fire or IvanHoe listed on any rating list.

Do you really think I care about IPONtificate?

I simply believe fairness and objectivity should be the norm...
it should be expected (demanded) from people in positions of power and influence.

It's very difficult to accept the hypocritical and judgmental nonsense being espoused...

[mclane]

Regarding Strelka the thing is a bit different. I would test Strelka as it might be reasonabley different from the Littos (even if there seems to be some relationship, and it seems the eval is just multiplied by aprox. 3, which is fun to watch but completly preposterous) but it is simply too faulty right now to finish a full run (I started a test and played 39 game swith the latest 64bit compile and had 8 crashes - impossible to make an automated test with ponder on - if the errors are related to ponder!). Additionaly I could see just by watching the logs two UCI errors, it seems it is developed for the CB GUI again and not for UCI ...

maybe you use the wrong GUI.

i have no crashes and no ponder problems and i am not using a CB GUI either.

i am especially not having a crash that stops the GUI running.
with 8 frozen GUIs in 39 games i would check my hardware or try a different GUI just to find out where the problem is.

[Dave Mitchell]

You're trying to herd cats and bees, Norman. May I suggest you attract them, instead? A little fish, or honey, will get MUCH better results for you!

In the forum, you need to practice the art of polite conversation - not call people names. I know we've all done it in the past, but think about the results. Will calling Ingo a hypocrite REALLY help persuade him to test your engine?

A snowball's chance in hell, do you agree?

Ingo has given you some valuable info, however. You could use that information to your advantage, instead of letting it only jump up your blood pressure. It would require a different way of setting your mind (attitude), though. Especially while responding here on the forum.

I meant to send this to you in a PM, but it failed.

Thanks Dave-

I'm not begging for any favors...and will not kiss ass to have Fire or IvanHoe listed on any rating list.

Do you really think I care about IPONtificate?

I simply believe fairness and objectivity should be the norm...
it should be expected (demanded) from people in positions of power and influence.

It's very difficult to accept the hypocritical and judgmental nonsense being espoused...

I barely know who the IPON guys are. I'm very old school when it comes to CC.

People are people, and I believe you're trying to swim against the current here, and calling the water names, isn't going to get you where you want to go.

Think honey, and I know it won't be easy for you to do that. You're obviously a person who's used to calling a spade a spade, and a damned spade too, from time to time. Don't think of the posts on the forum as "judgmental or hypocritical". Think of them as reflections of their authors point of view, at that moment.

Those points of view can change, of course.

Don't let them enrage you - but if it does, walk away from the keyboard until you can regain your cool. I have personally tried cursing at the earth, when it was shaking like crazy, and I can assure you, it did not stop the earthquake. Nor did it safeguard anyone, or anything, I hold dear.

Honey Norman, honey.

Keep

[kranium]

You're trying to herd cats and bees, Norman. May I suggest you attract them, instead? A little fish, or honey, will get MUCH better results for you!

In the forum, you need to practice the art of polite conversation - not call people names. I know we've all done it in the past, but think about the results. Will calling Ingo a hypocrite REALLY help persuade him to test your engine?

A snowball's chance in hell, do you agree?

Ingo has given you some valuable info, however. You could use that information to your advantage, instead of letting it only jump up your blood pressure. It would require a different way of setting your mind (attitude), though. Especially while responding here on the forum.

I meant to send this to you in a PM, but it failed.

Thanks Dave-

I'm not begging for any favors...and will not kiss ass to have Fire or IvanHoe listed on any rating list.

Do you really think I care about IPONtificate?

I simply believe fairness and objectivity should be the norm...
it should be expected (demanded) from people in positions of power and influence.

It's very difficult to accept the hypocritical and judgmental nonsense being espoused...

I barely know who the IPON guys are. I'm very old school when it comes to CC.

People are people, and I believe you're trying to swim against the current here, and calling the water names, isn't going to get you where you want to go.

Think honey, and I know it won't be easy for you to do that. You're obviously a person who's used to calling a spade a spade, and a damned spade too, from time to time. Don't think of the posts on the forum as "judgmental or hypocritical". Think of them as reflections of their authors point of view, at that moment.

Those points of view can change, of course.

Don't let them enrage you - but if it does, walk away from the keyboard until you can regain your cool. I have personally tried cursing at the earth, when it was shaking like crazy, and I can assure you, it did not stop the earthquake. Nor did it safeguard anyone, or anything, I hold dear.

Honey Norman, honey.

Keep

thanks honey-
you're right of course,
although i'm sure the cursing gave you a bit of temporary relief...

[geots]

The establishment's golden-boy compiler (JA) is now collaborating with Jury on the compiles, apparently even adding 64-bit support

--------------
Yet, Ippolit engines are discredited and banned...and Strelka lauded and accepted?


The hypocrisy and arbitrary standards confound the imagination!
The situation is ludicrous...and the responsibility/failure lies with the entrenched CCC 'Good-old boys' establishment.

About 18 years ago, a footballer accused of match fixing was, for reasons that I will not go into here, found not guilty in a UK criminal court. However, his claim for legal expenses received no sympathy from the judge because, in the words of the judge, “your behaviour brought suspicion on yourself”. The behaviour of those responsible for publicising Ippolit brought suspicion upon the Ippolit team. The fact that their credibility was not helped by the unsubstantiated claims made by Rajlich made the wisdom of their behaviour even more questionable.

In a field in which facts are hard to verify, complete honesty is demanded and respected. Rajlich and Houdart are perceived as being dishonest by many people and the Ippolit authors by some people. Osipov’s description of Strelka 5 is perceived to be honest. Hence the difference in reactions.

If those responsible for Ippolit have done nothing wrong, then they will be treated with greater respect if they are honest and open with the community. You seem to have knowledge about what they did that is not available to the rest of us. If you have the means to communicate with them and want to set the record straight, you might consider getting their permission to answer relevant questions.

I was saddened to read that you still feel repercussions of your past behaviour. I think that you have atoned for your sins.

Look, your statement that starts off- "If those responsible for Ippolit have done nothing wrong, they will be treated with greater respect........." Treated with the respect by exactly who? The chess community and/or the people here? That statement right there tells me you have no idea who you are dealing with. They care ZER0 about what anyone around here thinks of them. They don't even want you to believe them and think they are whatever, and respected. I know it's tough to take, but "you" meaning plural- the CC community, they don't respect you, and to be brutally honest, they don't think any of you are terribly smart. They definitely care NOTHING about being in any rating lists. I have said it before- they have no interest in being part of this group. They do not want to have anything to do with this group. From their perspective, you are beneath them. There are 2 programmers here they do respect, and consider on their level- and that IS IT.

Tough to take, but until the people here get their head out of the sand, and quit denying them credit for their work, by saying anyone can do what they did by theft, you are never going to close the gap. (For a reason, Robert and Houdini must be left out of this conversation. And that is really a compliment to Robert)

But if you think it is so easy to compete with Robbo- which by the way is looking to the near future with an elo increase that could be mind boggling. But if it is so easy, steal everything from everyone and use it all. Write a program that will beat Robbo. You_cannot_do_it.

As Kaufman said, we just cannot figure out how he did it. Meaning the elo gains. That's not his quote- but that is what he was trying to get across.

Go ahead and pile on me- and like always you will get nowhere. You haven/t in your wildest dreams any idea how smart these guys are. Like I said, they gave me 2 names, and those are the only 2 programmers down here they would give the time of day to.

Last time- you want to get the best of them. No problem. Write programs that can beat them. Already wasted too much time here- I gotta go see some Russians about a dog.

[K I Hyams]

About 18 years ago, a footballer accused of match fixing was, for reasons that I will not go into here, found not guilty in a UK criminal court. However, his claim for legal expenses received no sympathy from the judge because, in the words of the judge, “your behaviour brought suspicion on yourself”. The behaviour of those responsible for publicising Ippolit brought suspicion upon the Ippolit team. The fact that their credibility was not helped by the unsubstantiated claims made by Rajlich made the wisdom of their behaviour even more questionable.

In a field in which facts are hard to verify, complete honesty is demanded and respected. Rajlich and Houdart are perceived as being dishonest by many people and the Ippolit authors by some people. Osipov’s description of Strelka 5 is perceived to be honest. Hence the difference in reactions.

If those responsible for Ippolit have done nothing wrong, then they will be treated with greater respect if they are honest and open with the community. You seem to have knowledge about what they did that is not available to the rest of us. If you have the means to communicate with them and want to set the record straight, you might consider getting their permission to answer relevant questions.

I was saddened to read that you still feel repercussions of your past behaviour. I think that you have atoned for your sins.

Look, your statement that starts off- "If those responsible for Ippolit have done nothing wrong, they will be treated with greater respect........." Treated with the respect by exactly who? The chess community and/or the people here? That statement right there tells me you have no idea who you are dealing with. They care ZER0 about what anyone around here thinks of them. They don't even want you to believe them and think they are whatever, and respected. I know it's tough to take, but "you" meaning plural- the CC community, they don't respect you, and to be brutally honest, they don't think any of you are terribly smart. They definitely care NOTHING about being in any rating lists. I have said it before- they have no interest in being part of this group. They do not want to have anything to do with this group. From their perspective, you are beneath them. There are 2 programmers here they do respect, and consider on their level- and that IS IT.

Tough to take, but until the people here get their head out of the sand, and quit denying them credit for their work, by saying anyone can do what they did by theft, you are never going to close the gap. (For a reason, Robert and Houdini must be left out of this conversation. And that is really a compliment to Robert)

But if you think it is so easy to compete with Robbo- which by the way is looking to the near future with an elo increase that could be mind boggling. But if it is so easy, steal everything from everyone and use it all. Write a program that will beat Robbo. You_cannot_do_it.

As Kaufman said, we just cannot figure out how he did it. Meaning the elo gains. That's not his quote- but that is what he was trying to get across.

Go ahead and pile on me- and like always you will get nowhere. You haven/t in your wildest dreams any idea how smart these guys are. Like I said, they gave me 2 names, and those are the only 2 programmers down here they would give the time of day to.

Last time- you want to get the best of them. No problem. Write programs that can beat them. Already wasted too much time here- I gotta go see some Russians about a dog.

My post was clearly aimed at addressing the oft stated grievance of Norman Schmidt: the inconsistency that he perceives between the reaction of “”the entrenched CCC 'Good-old boys' establishment” towards those linked to Ippolit and those associated with other engines of putative lineage. As such, it specified the reason why the problem existed and the steps that he needed to take if he wanted to change anything.

Unlike you, I have no reason to hype myself up into a state in which I can fool myself that I am omniscient and so I make no attempt to pontificate on the motivations of those who published Ippolit. I did however make it crystal clear that I think that the response that they get from the CCC members about whom Norman complains is natural and appropriate.

You are not only incredibly rude, you are also "all mouth and trousers". Despite those characteristics, nobody "piles on" you, as you seem to think they do because, as Terry pointed out, you have zero credibility.