Today's Featured Match: IvanHoe B47e v Rybka 4.1

[geots]

Hi Norman,

at the moment I am testing a bit for the PeterPan versions. In around one week IvanHoe by PeterPan will start in SWCR because I have a longer time no add a new IvanHoe version in SWCR.

Your settings are the topic for myself.
Looks great I think. I believe, not sure, Ahmed used in his older compiled versions of IvanHoe such settings too. Not the same but comparable.

Perhaps I should try out this settings for IvanHoe "PeterPan" in around week. What do you think?

Hint:
In SWCR I used PeterPan versions only. I am sure KLO versions are good too but I can't test both and already I tested three of the PeterPan versions without any problems.

Could be interesting Norman:
PeterPan's compile, I made some changes in standard settings (only for a better ponder = on mode, hash-settings) and from yourself comes the other settings

I saw that Fire is not longer available.
I hope that you will works on Fire again, sources must not be free. Everyone know that the code cleanings comes from yourself, so you can work on it and you can make only newer executables available (without sources of Fire).

I have no interest to lost your work.

Best
Frank

I am not a fan from free sources after all what is happen and in all the years before. I try to gave this information in interview I made with so many of our programmers. Look in the Fruit interview, available for around 6 years, I don't know. The result of strong open sources can be see with Houdini. Programmers should hold it's own work secret. OK, I like the Stockfish project too and can understand what the programmers says to this topic in the interview. But I don't believe that open sources in times today are right. Persons which have interest to try out own ideas in open sources can used other, not so strong sources for his work. They must not have for each good ideas a solution. More interesting is to bring the own brain in computer chess position.

Not really true, Frank. If a programmer doesn't mind the extra work- it doesn't make any difference if it is open-source or locked up with the gold in Fort Knox. If you use it to try and ban a man forever, you damn sure can get enough access to find what you are after.


Best,

george

[geots]

I can't deal much with his compiles- I don't have the patience. He puts out a bugfix version, changes the letter on the end, but doesn't change it in the exe, and you have to adjust the name after you load it. I thought it was just a few- but he NEVER takes the time to go back and do it right.

i'm not aware of any issue with version names...
(he's been maintaining that site from the very beginning, even with Robbolito)
there has been a fix or two over the years but he always updates his FTP site with the the updated/fixed download

he's active on open chess...you just need to post your question there and he'll address it
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1686
user: kingliveson

Take a look at his 9.46a and his 9.47c He says each is the version. But he did not make the necessary internal changes, and 9.46a loads as 9.46b- and 9.47c loads as 9.47b. then you gotta fix the names as best you can when it is loaded. Like in the 1kb uci file created upon loading- go in it and change 9.46b to 9.46b[a] that is the only way you can keep up with which is really which. I asked slankamen about it and he says KLO does it all the time. He isn't jumping thru hoops about it either.


Best,

george

[geots]

Your settings are the topic for myself.
Looks great I think. I believe, not sure, Ahmed used in his older compiled versions of IvanHoe such settings too. Not the same but comparable.
Perhaps I should try out this settings for IvanHoe "PeterPan" in around week. What do you think?

Hi Frank-

those are not my settings...
it's a couple of the many changes made by PeterPan in his IvanHoe B47E (version).
it changes the way the program plays...therefore it's really no longer just a 'compile' of IvanHoe source code.

Peterpan has done a great job over the years providing compiles..
but he usually puts his own stamp on them, and likes to change the code in an effort to make it stronger...
I have nothing against PeterPans work, have tried many of his compiles myself...

but as a purist, i am simply recommending that you guys test versions using 100% source code 'as released' by the Ippo authors,
not someone's experimental try...

KLO's compiles use 'original' source code only...no experimental changes
they are neat, well organized, extremely consistent, and all are easily available from one location
in addition, he includes 32-bit as well as 64-bit for both Linux and Windows

Norm

Norman, everything you just said is 100% true. I like PP, but I am scared of his "too many experimental changes". You realize that all the years and hundreds of CM personalities created by everyone and their cousins, the best CM King changed version was maybe, maybe 40 elo stronger than the default King. And giving it 40 elo is being damn generous. And that is only an extremely isolated case. So someone got lucky. Point is you can't go wrong staying with what the author gave you in the beginning with any engine. Looking ahead at that time- testing CM personalities was a lot of fun. But looking back now with the benefit of hindsight- it was the biggest waste of time since the photographer taking pictures at my first wedding.


george

[geots]

Frank-
one last thing...

IvanHoe version numbers can be confusing

in general, the lowest number (with the highest letter) is the newest...
at this time, the most recent release is 46f

one can always reference the change log
see the file 'CHANGELOG' (located in the src directory)

the authors list version history with major changes

for ex, at the very bottom of the page:

999946 Emerge RobboBaseLib
Version b: comply WINDOWS (Capitalist!)
Version c: Chess960 ComradesGUI
Version d: Chess960 IvanHoe (value)
Plus: Nostredame bug fix to OpenTripleFile (DIR_NOME) for WINDOWS
Version e: Bug fix (slankamen), Newbuy count 5 in Squeeze
Version f: WINDOWS fix, Nostredame to ReFactor, plus fidgets (typo)

perhaps you already knew this...just posting it in case it helps

And 46f will be starting the daily match with an IvanHoe version vs. Rybka 4.1 Check back here in Tournaments and Matches in 12 hours or so- and we can see how it fared. I am assuming the 999946f that I downloaded and am going to run in a few minutes is the pure original version with no changes made by KLO.

Norman, you got to understand that list of versions I got it from- that is not where KLO gets in trouble with the false version numbers. That happens every time he produces a bugfix for a version and implements it.
He says something like version 36c is the new name after the bugfix- but only problem is he doesnt go in the exe and make the changes. So he says it is one version, and it loads as another.


george

[Frank Quisinsky]

George,

again, read the Stockfish interview.
I have the same opinion in the most things Marco wrote here. Most ideas in chess programming are open and good known. But it make no sense to give others again and again the combination how this sources are to set.

I think users can await from programmers that a bit own work are add. In my opinion ... which isn't clear, perhaps 65:35 ... I think open sources are bad!

We have to look only in all things around Crafty sources in the past, or Pepito sources, later the Fruit sources. How many example we need?

All the problems computer chess have comes from free sources. And this is quit clear because not all are faithfully and used works by others for own things. For this group of people GPL or other things aren't important.

That's the point why I can't understand Bob in much of his messages. Fabien are very proud of his own work and give it to others. I think this one was a big mistake ... have a look what others do with such things.

Now we have to live with this situtation. The situation have a lot of good points too, yes. Programmers are more and more motivated to reach programs like Stockfish, or the work Norman do with his sources. Much others are disappointed. All this is to understand but again ... the programmers made the situation complicated not the users.

The programmers do that and in the most of cases with no ill intent. Yes, we live in a bad world and can see that more and more with internet. Thats the results from Gorbatschow Hyatt and all the others have to fight with Gorbatschow. No, no ... jokeing

Best
Frank

[kranium]

I can't deal much with his compiles- I don't have the patience. He puts out a bugfix version, changes the letter on the end, but doesn't change it in the exe, and you have to adjust the name after you load it. I thought it was just a few- but he NEVER takes the time to go back and do it right.

i'm not aware of any issue with version names...
(he's been maintaining that site from the very beginning, even with Robbolito)
there has been a fix or two over the years but he always updates his FTP site with the the updated/fixed download

he's active on open chess...you just need to post your question there and he'll address it
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1686
user: kingliveson

Take a look at his 9.46a and his 9.47c He says each is the version. But he did not make the necessary internal changes, and 9.46a loads as 9.46b- and 9.47c loads as 9.47b. then you gotta fix the names as best you can when it is loaded. Like in the 1kb uci file created upon loading- go in it and change 9.46b to 9.46b[a] that is the only way you can keep up with which is really which. I asked slankamen about it and he says KLO does it all the time. He isn't jumping thru hoops about it either.


Best,
george

no George this is correct behavior...
it's not an issue with KLO.
i.e. just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong.

i'll try to explain...
KLO didn't change anything, or break it
this is exactly the way the ippolit guys made and released it.
it should load as 46b...this is intended

IvanHoe is still all 'beta' versions
the ippolit authors named it 999946b (b is for 'beta')

think of it this way:

engine name: IvanHoe
engine version: 96b

this is what the UCI GUI sees (id name) and uses

but at the file level....the .exe is named 999946f (to indicate a sub-version, i.e. to show that a small change has been made)
this sub-version info (renaming of the exe) however is not seen by the GUI...

so UCI name remains 'IvanHoe 999946b' no matter what sub-version is used

that being said:
most GUIs allow you to use the file name as engine name...this would be a solution for you
in this manner, you would see the IvanHoe 999946f as engine name instead of IvanHoe 999946b

i suggest you do that rather than complain about KLO, who is doing the community a great service.

Norm

[geots]

I can't deal much with his compiles- I don't have the patience. He puts out a bugfix version, changes the letter on the end, but doesn't change it in the exe, and you have to adjust the name after you load it. I thought it was just a few- but he NEVER takes the time to go back and do it right.

i'm not aware of any issue with version names...
(he's been maintaining that site from the very beginning, even with Robbolito)
there has been a fix or two over the years but he always updates his FTP site with the the updated/fixed download

he's active on open chess...you just need to post your question there and he'll address it
http://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1686
user: kingliveson

Take a look at his 9.46a and his 9.47c He says each is the version. But he did not make the necessary internal changes, and 9.46a loads as 9.46b- and 9.47c loads as 9.47b. then you gotta fix the names as best you can when it is loaded. Like in the 1kb uci file created upon loading- go in it and change 9.46b to 9.46b[a] that is the only way you can keep up with which is really which. I asked slankamen about it and he says KLO does it all the time. He isn't jumping thru hoops about it either.


Best,
george

no George this is correct behavior...
it's not an issue with KLO.
i.e. just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong.

i'll try to explain...
KLO didn't change anything, or break it
this is exactly the way the ippolit guys made and released it.
it should load as 46b...this is intended

IvanHoe is still all 'beta' versions
the ippolit authors named it 999946b (b is for 'beta')

think of it this way:

engine name: IvanHoe
engine version: 96b

this is what the UCI GUI sees (id name) and uses

but at the file level....the .exe is named 999946f (to indicate a sub-version, i.e. to show that a small change has been made)
this sub-version info (renaming of the exe) however is not seen by the GUI...

so UCI name remains 'IvanHoe 999946b' no matter what sub-version is used

that being said:
most GUIs allow you to use the file name as engine name...this would be a solution for you
in this manner, you would see the IvanHoe 999946f as engine name instead of IvanHoe 999946b

i suggest you do that rather than complain about KLO, who is doing the community a great service.

Norm

Norman, I am well aware that Franklin is doing a great service. Because there used to be many more compilers, as Misha said- but most are gone. My only point is if I am downloading a version, that is the name I want it to show. It is easy to do it that way- because PP does it the opposite way from KLO with each and every one of his compiles. You download it- and that is the versions that shows up in the gui. And no, I don't want to just use PPs compiles for that reason. But if Franklin would name it the way PP does, it would be much easier on the guys loading all the versions. And no argument or point of view can refute that.


Best ,

george