Levy's interview on Chessbase about ICGA/rybka

[bob]

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=36

You smeared 1/4 of the CCT entrants for no other reason than your gut. That is not a lie. By the way, nothing came out of that empty statement.

Confirmed.

Please "name the CCT entrants that were smeared". SPECIFICALLY. Program names or author names will do equally well.

waiting...

For what purpose? It is YOUR statement (click the link above), so if YOU need the names for some purpose you might ask YOURSELF that question. Did or did you not write

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

My POINT is that I did NOT claim any specific program was a clone, now did I? Because I don't believe a "gut feeling" is proof. You have joined right in with Ed and Chris, using distortion, hyperbole, and dishonesty to further your agenda(s). There is a HUGE difference between a "suspicion" (which is why I did NOT "name names") and proof. You know that. Yet you continue this line of discussion, which is completely dishonest. I don't "name" until I am sure. As in the Rybka case, for one example...

[bob]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

It is in the world of distortion and dishonesty. Apparently. Most understood the statement.

[bob]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

Casts a slur of suspicion though.

"On WHO?"

[bob]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

Casts a slur of suspicion though.

That's true but there is no implication that you have evidence against anyone in particular which is what Marcel seems to believe.

Best
Dan H.

Indeed, but one must be careful not to upset genuine authors with a blanket statement like that, even if it could well be right according to Bob's definition of originality.

What is wrong with you guys? Exactly WHICH "author" should be upset? Only the ones that know they are "in the 1/4th"???

I'm in a room full of chess programmers. Someone announces "I believe that one out of every four of you copy the code of others" (which is a FAR stronger statement than I made.) I would not be insulted in the least. Care to guess WHY?

[bob]

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=36

You smeared 1/4 of the CCT entrants for no other reason than your gut. That is not a lie. By the way, nothing came out of that empty statement.

Confirmed.

Please "name the CCT entrants that were smeared". SPECIFICALLY. Program names or author names will do equally well.

waiting...

Recap

Here's a newsflash. Fruit/Rybka/Robo* is just the_tip_ of the iceberg. And I do mean the "tip". I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original. Vincent has raised this issue several times, I happen to agree with him completely. We have some _major_ issues with "ethically challenged individuals".

So which authors would you like to accuse

Will accuse when enough evidence is collected. "gut" is rarely wrong in these cases, however. More later. No statement about when "later" is, hence no names yet either.

Meaning it's your job to list those names you had in mind and your More later implies that you got that yourself.

Assume whatever you want. Distort however you want. BTW we DO know that several of those programs are derivatives. Some have already been discussed by now.

But keep up with your nonsense. "I will accuse when enough evidence is collected" means just that. Not some nonsensical meaning you want to create.

I don't work for you, nor on any timeline you want to impose. You want something faster? Do it yourself.

[Rolf]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

Casts a slur of suspicion though.

A slur of suspicion on _all_, so this is the scandal that should be solved. It doesnt help if he spoke only of a quarter, it would be similar if he had spoken of only exactly one player. Without additional specification it would hurt all. This is somewhat similar to the naivety of the ICGA publication abour Vas, they jus dont understand and they dont care if a particular individual gets hurt. That's all a consequence of flaws in their logical reasoning and then it degenerates into lynch practice.

[lucasart]

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7899

The other side of the moon

Dear forum administrators,

Can you please move this thread to the Engine Origin section, where it belongs ?

These discussions will never end, and there will always be people talking about Rybka (before it was Ippolit and all its derivatives, then Houdini, now Rybka, and tomorrow something else). But for the rest of us (which I believe is a majority) we are getting fed up of thes discussions taking over the forum.

I'm not advocating any censorship, just moving these discussions to the appropriate forum, where spamers can spam themselves happily, leaving the rest of us unspamed!

Basically ask yourselves this question:
* how many posts a day are there in this forum (General Topics) to talk about "cloning" issues ?
* how many posts a day are there in this same forum to talk about Chess ?

Thank you for your understanding

[bob]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

Casts a slur of suspicion though.

A slur of suspicion on _all_, so this is the scandal that should be solved. It doesnt help if he spoke only of a quarter, it would be similar if he had spoken of only exactly one player. Without additional specification it would hurt all. This is somewhat similar to the naivety of the ICGA publication abour Vas, they jus dont understand and they dont care if a particular individual gets hurt. That's all a consequence of flaws in their logical reasoning and then it degenerates into lynch practice.

So I "slurred myself" as well? Remember, I participated.

It only "hurts" the ones that KNOW they violated the rules...

[Rolf]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

Casts a slur of suspicion though.

A slur of suspicion on _all_, so this is the scandal that should be solved. It doesnt help if he spoke only of a quarter, it would be similar if he had spoken of only exactly one player. Without additional specification it would hurt all. This is somewhat similar to the naivety of the ICGA publication abour Vas, they jus dont understand and they dont care if a particular individual gets hurt. That's all a consequence of flaws in their logical reasoning and then it degenerates into lynch practice.

So I "slurred myself" as well? Remember, I participated.

It only "hurts" the ones that KNOW they violated the rules...

Those who are innocent like you have only to bear the false impression the public could get. That is meant by slur. The guilty ones will laugh out loud and enjoy that they could tear down many others too. That's why I would agree that either saying nothing or mentioning who might come under suspicion. That would be fair deal.

No fair deal was the ICGA with your help. It gave the impression that if someone doesnt defend himself what is his right in our European Law, they will examine his past, how he began, what addictions he had, what the FBI had to add and all such non-democratic dead-roads, what traitors could provide, what convicted criminals could help with their forbidden practices. That is no longer a system with a law that I would want to live under.

In an ideal life we were all only saints and we know that this isnt real but we must pay attention that we dont exaggerate because the space we have for prisons is somewhat limited. And it's the undeniable truth that e.g. artists are seldom Babbitts (philistines). Therefore I beg you all to come back to your senses. We want to see a sport where the most inventive and creative player wins and no the one who is the biggest darling of the President. All this search for pseudo cleansing is de-humanizing all of us.

GENS UNA SUMUS

[Terry McCracken]

I would not be surprised in the least to discover that 1/4 of the cct-12 programs are not original.

Any burden of proof is on YOUR side. Naming would be a nice start. Evidence is next. Waiting...

"I would not be surprised . . ." is not an allegation.

Best
Dan H.

Casts a slur of suspicion though.

A slur of suspicion on _all_, so this is the scandal that should be solved. It doesnt help if he spoke only of a quarter, it would be similar if he had spoken of only exactly one player. Without additional specification it would hurt all. This is somewhat similar to the naivety of the ICGA publication abour Vas, they jus dont understand and they dont care if a particular individual gets hurt. That's all a consequence of flaws in their logical reasoning and then it degenerates into lynch practice.

So I "slurred myself" as well? Remember, I participated.

It only "hurts" the ones that KNOW they violated the rules...

Those who are innocent like you have only to bear the false impression the public could get. That is meant by slur. The guilty ones will laugh out loud and enjoy that they could tear down many others too. That's why I would agree that either saying nothing or mentioning who might come under suspicion. That would be fair deal.

No fair deal was the ICGA with your help. It gave the impression that if someone doesnt defend himself what is his right in our European Law, they will examine his past, how he began, what addictions he had, what the FBI had to add and all such non-democratic dead-roads, what traitors could provide, what convicted criminals could help with their forbidden practices. That is no longer a system with a law that I would want to live under.

In an ideal life we were all only saints and we know that this isnt real but we must pay attention that we dont exaggerate because the space we have for prisons is somewhat limited. And it's the undeniable truth that e.g. artists are seldom Babbitts (philistines). Therefore I beg you all to come back to your senses. We want to see a sport where the most inventive and creative player wins and no the one who is the biggest darling of the President. All this search for pseudo cleansing is de-humanizing all of us.

GENS UNA SUMUS

Rolf you pontificating hypocrite, Xuck Off!