A "Top 4" Ivanhoe v Komodo64- OUCH!!!

[geots]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

To post another match-

g
e
o
r
g
e

[Albert Silver]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

To post another match-

g
e
o
r
g
e

Out of curiosity, I tried to locate this version, but ran into several compiles with this exact reference. Which one did you use?

[geots]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

To post another match-

g
e
o
r
g
e

Out of curiosity, I tried to locate this version, but ran into several compiles with this exact reference. Which one did you use?

Just saw your question. Watch your mail. It has the 32 and 64 bit version.


gts

[Albert Silver]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

To post another match-

g
e
o
r
g
e

Out of curiosity, I tried to locate this version, but ran into several compiles with this exact reference. Which one did you use?

Just saw your question. Watch your mail. It has the 32 and 64 bit version.


gts

Thanks!

[Albert Silver]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

I tested it against Houdini 1.5a at 2min + 1s using all four cores (ponder off) which is 4x 4.2GHz, but it was getting crushed after 130 games, by 67%. That said, it has a very attractive and entertaining style, but in terms of pure strength, it could not keep up.

[geots]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

I tested it against Houdini 1.5a at 2min + 1s using all four cores (ponder off) which is 4x 4.2GHz, but it was getting crushed after 130 games, by 67%. That said, it has a very attractive and entertaining style, but in terms of pure strength, it could not keep up.

Yes, you are correct. There are only 3 engines that come in ahead of it. Houdini is one- the other 2 are Critter and Strelka. I don't know much about 4 cores- haven't tried it on that yet. It just doesn't get my interest at the time.

Think about it tho- only 3 engines, possibly 2 only- that are stronger than B46e- and they all came from his loins. I did not say ilegally, just that if it were not for Ivanhoe- they would not be holding down the top 3 spots.

gts

[geots]

I din't say anything yesterday when I read your thread over in General about B46e finding the correct move. It wasn't the time or the place. But I can't imagine where you came up with that idea- about beating Houdini. I'm fairly certain I never mentioned Houdini. But glad you are enjoying it.


Best,

george

[ernest]

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4Which one did you use?

My B46e is the one compiled by Peterpan

The 64-bit Ivanhoe B46e.exe is dated 2011-11-10 21:24, size is 538112 bytes

Is that the same George sent you details?

[Don]

George,

Your are obviously doing some wrong here. I suspect that you have Ivanhoe set to use the default number of processors, which is 8 on the version I am using.

Please check your results because if it's set up fairly, Komodo 4 should WIN such a match at the time control you are testing and the hardware you are testing on. Komodo 4 should win by a small but definite margin.

I'm running a similar match myself and I will publish the results. My hardware is a notebook but it's 64 bit, and I am also running Ivanhoe 46e and using the same time control you are using. After 10 games Komodo 4 is a game up, showing a score of 55% and about 25 ELO. Ten games is a ridiculously low sample but that is roughly in line with what we would expect.

Your ridiculously distorted results would put Ivanhoe well over 100 ELO ahead of Houdini. Do the math - if Houdini is about 40-50 ELO ahead of Komodo and Ivanhoe is 180 ahead of Komodo, then it's clear than Ivanhoe is much stronger than Houdini. But that is obviously not the case which you yourself have admitted.

It's understood that your sample of 50 or 60 games is ridiculously low but a match this unlucky for Komodo is possible but unlikely. So I think that either your setup is incorrect somehow, or that you are inadvertently reporting only the matches that are strongly in favor of Ivanhoe. Even though I have no question about your integrity and honesty, this can happen due to human error and psychology, so even respected scientists have to be diligent so as not to report biased results inadvertently. You have never failed to report a bad result for Ivanhoe so I suspect this, but I suspect your setup even more because 180 ELO is unlikely, even after only 50 games.

So can you please check your setup? Also, it would be good if we could get a neutral party to run this same test to see if your results can be duplicated. I'm running the test myself but I'm not a neutral party obviously.

I actually now have 20 games and here is what I get so far, i7-2630QM at 2.00 Ghz notebook, 64 bit linux, Komodo 4 vs IvanHoe 64 bit IvanHoe999946e both running just 1 core, 128 meg hash 40 moves in 180 seconds repeating time control ponder off. The games are available on request:

Code: Select all

Rank Name       Elo      +      -    games   score   oppo.   draws 
   1 Komodo4  3000.0  135.7  135.7      20   57.5%  2958.9   45.0% 
   2 IvanHoe  2958.9  135.7  135.7      20   42.5%  3000.0   45.0% 

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

To post another match-

g
e
o
r
g
e

[geots]

George,

Your are obviously doing some wrong here. I suspect that you have Ivanhoe set to use the default number of processors, which is 8 on the version I am using.

Please check your results because if it's set up fairly, Komodo 4 should WIN such a match at the time control you are testing and the hardware you are testing on. Komodo 4 should win by a small but definite margin.

I'm running a similar match myself and I will publish the results. My hardware is a notebook but it's 64 bit, and I am also running Ivanhoe 46e and using the same time control you are using. After 10 games Komodo 4 is a game up, showing a score of 55% and about 25 ELO. Ten games is a ridiculously low sample but that is roughly in line with what we would expect.

Your ridiculously distorted results would put Ivanhoe well over 100 ELO ahead of Houdini. Do the math - if Houdini is about 40-50 ELO ahead of Komodo and Ivanhoe is 180 ahead of Komodo, then it's clear than Ivanhoe is much stronger than Houdini. But that is obviously not the case which you yourself have admitted.

It's understood that your sample of 50 or 60 games is ridiculously low but a match this unlucky for Komodo is possible but unlikely. So I think that either your setup is incorrect somehow, or that you are inadvertently reporting only the matches that are strongly in favor of Ivanhoe. Even though I have no question about your integrity and honesty, this can happen due to human error and psychology, so even respected scientists have to be diligent so as not to report biased results inadvertently. You have never failed to report a bad result for Ivanhoe so I suspect this, but I suspect your setup even more because 180 ELO is unlikely, even after only 50 games.

So can you please check your setup? Also, it would be good if we could get a neutral party to run this same test to see if your results can be duplicated. I'm running the test myself but I'm not a neutral party obviously.

I actually now have 20 games and here is what I get so far, i7-2630QM at 2.00 Ghz notebook, 64 bit linux, Komodo 4 vs IvanHoe 64 bit IvanHoe999946e both running just 1 core, 128 meg hash 40 moves in 180 seconds repeating time control ponder off. The games are available on request:

Code: Select all

Rank Name       Elo      +      -    games   score   oppo.   draws 
   1 Komodo4  3000.0  135.7  135.7      20   57.5%  2958.9   45.0% 
   2 IvanHoe  2958.9  135.7  135.7      20   42.5%  3000.0   45.0% 

Ivanhoe B46e x64 vs Komodo64 SSE Version 4


This Ivanhoe version is firmly placed in the "Top 4" of Ivanhoe versions. And I would imagine Komodo hopes so. Thing is, it was a much worse beating than the score indicates. I forgot to set the match for 50 games. When I woke up and checked, 59 games had been played. Of the 9 I had to remove to keep it at 50 games, Ivanhoe had really begun to turn it on- winning 6 of the last 9 with 3 games drawn. You can do the math.............. This makes 2 Ivanhoe versions checked.



Intel i5 w/4TCs
Fritz 11 gui
1CPU/64bit
128MB hash
Bases=NONE
Ponder_Learning=OFF
Perfect 12.32 book w/12-move limit
40/3 Repeating
Match=50 games

Code: Select all

1   Ivanhoe B46e x64         +92    +21/-8/=21   63.00%   31.5/50
2   Komodo64 SSE Version 4   -92    +8/-21/=21   37.00%   18.5/50

To post another match-

g
e
o
r
g
e

That is quite a piece of work. You suspect I have Ivanhoe using the default number of processors. I do, which is 1CPU after I make the change in the 1kbUci file. It is default then- not a parameter setting change. And I check at least 5 or 6 times a match to be sure it is right. Which is really not necessary, as each time there is a game not drawn, I check first in the PGNs to be sure that the winner and the loser both had nothing out of the ordinary in ply depth or nps. But I call it double checking. You must really think I am a complete idiot.

I never let them go more than 8 moves into the opening, very rarely 9 moves. If either comes out of the opening with a +1.0 or greater advantage- the game is replayed.

I am obviously doing something wrong- my results are "ridiculously distorted". I may "inadvertantly" be only posting results that favor Ivanhoe. Since, as you say, you don't question my integrity and honesty- exactly how would I "inadvertantly" manage this? So let me understand this to be sure: I am "inadvertantly" posting "ridiculously distorted" results. You sure use a lot of big words.

If you had bothered to contact me privately, you would have found that this was the 2nd 1CPU 64bit match between Komodo and Ivanhoe B46e. And I would have told you B46e won the first match by 5 games.

So does that mean I think B46e is 13 games and 90 elo stronger than Komodo? I don't bother with stupid questions. Well do I think B46e is 5 games and 35 elo stronger? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least the questions are beginning to show a bent toward sanity.

You should have contacted me privately and discussed this with me. I would have told you about the first match and sent you the PGNs for both matches. There is a wealth of information in there. At least there is for someone who wanted to take the time to find out why Komodo lost both matches- before deciding to throw blame around. Because if you had done that first, this thread of yours would not exist. And you would see the particular style of play that exposed weaknesses in Komodo's game. But I'm sure you don't care about that. It is easier to just run a bunch of games till you decide his play is fine and it couldn't have happened.

Yes, you should have done that first before you came onto an open forum and attacked my credibility as a tester as well as my credibility in general. You will have to forgive me if I don't buy your having "no questions about my integrity or honesty." The hell you don't.

I have the results from two more Komodo-Ivanhoe matches. But you will again have to forgive me if I don't immediately post them. There are now some unexpected considerations I have to deal with.

I am sure you will understand if I don't wish you a good night or good day- whichever.