Why isn't Hiarcs 64bit?

[mclane]

Hiarcs is a knowledge program. komodo also has lots of knowledge. but hiarcs has more knowledge.

[ernest]

However just like Shredder and Junior it does not show any real gain

Wrong for Junior: DJ13 64-bit is 20% faster than 32-bit.

[Harvey Williamson]

However just like Shredder and Junior it does not show any real gain

Wrong for Junior: DJ13 64-bit is 20% faster than 32-bit.

Are there any ratings list that show an improvement? Or proof that it is 10% faster it was not last time I tested it. I hope there is a small improvement.

[ernest]

Or proof that it is ...

Just do it : infinite analysis on start_position, and compare!

[Harvey Williamson]

Or proof that it is ...

Just do it : infinite analysis on start_position, and compare!

So there are no ratings lists testing both? That is a shame if it really is 20% faster it could be about 10 elo.

[Don]

Why on Earth hasn't Mark utilized 64bit programming in Hiarcs yet? Almost all of today's operating systems are 64bit. 64bit is proven to be faster than 32bit if programmed efficiently enough.

Is it because Mark doesn't know how to do it?
Just study other 64bit programs along with their corresponding 32bit program. But choose the ones to study where there is a big improvement.
Look at the changes to 64bit from 32bit.

Surely Hiarcs would be a lot stronger if it utilize 64bit efficiently enough. After all, it is a commercial program and it is illogical not to achieve this and still be commercial.

I'm not convinced that 64 bit chess programs have to be faster. A 64 bit program is faster on a 64 bit machine but that is because it is written in a way which cripples it on 32 bits. It doesn't necessarily follow that this is the only good way to write a chess program. Maybe it is, I'm just saying that I have not been fully convinced of this yet.

[IWB]

I'm not convinced that 64 bit chess programs have to be faster. A 64 bit program is faster on a 64 bit machine but that is because it is written in a way which cripples it on 32 bits. It doesn't necessarily follow that this is the only good way to write a chess program. Maybe it is, I'm just saying that I have not been fully convinced of this yet.

I absolutly agree and there is some kind of "historical" argument to prove that.

At time when Rybka 2.3.2a was 100 Elo above all others the same argument about 64bit was used. Nowadays we have several engines (Shredder, Fritz, Hiarcs ...) in that area which are not bitbaord but different AND at the same strength. So, the argument "64 bit is faster and therefore better" fails. This wasn't true in the past and it has to be proven that it is true today!! (and I doubt that it can be proven)

Bye
Ingo

[Werner]

So there are no ratings lists testing both? That is a shame if it really is 20% faster it could be about 10 elo.

Have a look here at CEGT 40/20:
some examples
17 Houdini 1.5a x64 1CPU 3010
34 Houdini 1.5a w32 1CPU 2973

32 Critter 1.4 x64 1CPU 2977
42 Critter 1.4 w32 1CPU 2964

36 Stockfish 2.2.2 x64 1CPU 2973
54 Stockfish 2.2.2 w32 1CPU 2940

47 Komodo 3.0 x64 2953
71 Komodo 3.0 w32 2908

PS: I do not like the way you are writing here - it is a shame for the whole Hiarc team in my eyes!

[geots]

So there are no ratings lists testing both? That is a shame if it really is 20% faster it could be about 10 elo.

Have a look here at CEGT 40/20:
some examples
17 Houdini 1.5a x64 1CPU 3010
34 Houdini 1.5a w32 1CPU 2973

32 Critter 1.4 x64 1CPU 2977
42 Critter 1.4 w32 1CPU 2964

36 Stockfish 2.2.2 x64 1CPU 2973
54 Stockfish 2.2.2 w32 1CPU 2940

47 Komodo 3.0 x64 2953
71 Komodo 3.0 w32 2908

PS: I do not like the way you are writing here - it is a shame for the whole Hiarc team in my eyes!

Agreed +2- I could not say it better than you did!

george

[IWB]

So there are no ratings lists testing both? That is a shame if it really is 20% faster it could be about 10 elo.

Have a look here at CEGT 40/20:
some examples
17 Houdini 1.5a x64 1CPU 3010
34 Houdini 1.5a w32 1CPU 2973

32 Critter 1.4 x64 1CPU 2977
42 Critter 1.4 w32 1CPU 2964

36 Stockfish 2.2.2 x64 1CPU 2973
54 Stockfish 2.2.2 w32 1CPU 2940

47 Komodo 3.0 x64 2953
71 Komodo 3.0 w32 2908

PS: I do not like the way you are writing here - it is a shame for the whole Hiarc team in my eyes!

Hi Werner,

I think you got this wrong. Harvey is talking about Junior and a possible 20% difference, not about the difference between 32 and 64 bit in general.

As far as I see the last Junior which is tested in 32 bit is "383 Deep Junior 10.1 4CPU 2656 14 14 1561 41.6% 2716 32.2%" in the CEGT 40/20. If there is really a 20% difference a test of that makes much more sense than a test of the 32 and the 64bit Version of Shredder (e.g.)

(That is a bit "theoretical" as I promote to test the 64bit solely if available, but the CEGT in general test both versions - but not Junior recently - and I did not check the CCRL)

This is no accusation at all, I personaly are absolutly happy with the 64bit test only!!!

Bye
Ingo