Houdini - Cluster Rybka encounter....

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

The word "fall" indicates that the particular engine is no more at the top of the particular rating list.......
Bearing in mind this definition,it's not a strange terminology Shimon,it's simply a fact......
Dr.D

Do you watch Carlsen and tell everyone around you, "don't worry he will fall someday"
did you do it with tiger woods, Michael Jordan, Mohammed Ali, Jimmy Johnson, George ST. Pierre, etc....
why would you just keep telling people that a certain program or a certain person is going to fall?
No one in my past kept telling people, "just wait Chessmaster will fall"
I have purchased every program in the past, and this time I refused the discount upgrade because of my appreciation for the program.
Robert Houdart and Vas are temporary, just passing through, they wont be here long. Look do I have to list all of the badasses, no I don't----Ed in his time was a badass at the top of his game but he is out of energy and ideas, what about Hyatt, damn, do we have to go there, a PHD, a whole life of chess accomplishments, at one time Hyatt had the best and was the best, but his time at the top is over, it takes a huge amount of time and energy to tune plus having new and good ideas, we are lucky just to have him here to answer questions, and all of the other badasses that have written programs even if they are only 1700 to 2600....but and this is a big but...look at the past history of improvements, no one has done what Vas and Robert Houdart has done for me and most others, of course Shredder and Junior were fun, damn many many hours of fun I got out of all of my programs, but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood, ask one of them to use Junior, Shredder, Rybka, etc....wont happen.
My point is, For gamers, and some others that only want the best, if someone else does not step up, we could be stuck with Houdin 3 elo for a long time if we lose Robert Houdart. We probably are stuck with the final version of Rybka forever. Do any of the existing programmers have the ability to improve Houdini or Rybka elo...doubt it.
ask yourself, when Robert Houdart and Vas are gone, who is left and what have they shown us they can do to raise a program above the very top elo strength, so far all of the other programmers have peaked out, they are out of ideas for strength. of course they have the free code that is floating around but it takes a lot of energy to implement and tune---and that is only if they can, many cannot.
I have read every post on code stealing and I have read both sides.
It seems Rybka was reverse-engineered and put on the internet as open source as Ippolit or Robbolitto, If I was in the business, I would say sorry Vas that that happened, and then I would use the open source.
It seems you Deeb have appointed yourself the task of being MR anti Houdart. I don't know what your qualifications are to assume this role. why didn't ED appoint himself, why didn't Hyatt appoint himself, what about Critters author, why doesn't he do it?
I hope you and others don't run off Robert Houdart before his time is up.
and another thing, I don't consider your reply an attack.
It is not how much you can take, it is how much you can take and still keep moving forward without taking it personal.
kgburcham

I doubt he will be run off any time soon. Robert is smarter than Vas. Just look at his next step. he is going to release a configurable Houdini3 with an official tuning tool.. it's not going to be free. so when sales die down alittle bit from aquarium and chessbase Robert will introduce another toy for us. So Robert will make money all year long.

Now when the configurable Houdini comes out Robert will be able to glean from all the people who buys the tune-able Houdini. I'm sure he has his own ideas but just look how this site found some problems that Robert will address in the next addition. the tune-able Houdini will bring about some changes as well. If he fixes the bitbases then I believe Houdini will play even better ending games. the games I played with bitbases had a lot of draws that should have been clearly won. If you took those drawn games and the ones won it would have won more games than the gav ts did.

To sum it up Robert is very bright and will give us what we want but at a price. Robert is also upgrading Houdini every year not like Vas who talks a big game but delivers nothing and keeps you hanging forever. Vas has not delivered on his word once! Robert on the other hand works months in advance getting ready so he does not disappoint us.

I think Houdini has a bright future.

I have to confes that releasing the configurable Houdini 3 is a smart approach no matter from what perspective you look at it........
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

nice post, agreed with all but one point. i am very confident komodo will rival houdini within a year or two.

I know they are struggling with several issues.
I also read where Don said he is doing a complete re-write of the code.
I have not read any posts that give me the confidence you have in Komodo.
If Don can keep his energy level up and stays with the challenge and if Don is very motivated, then maybe. I will just watch and wait with the Komodo project. I use smp at chess servers so I did not buy Komodo.
kgburcham

Don has health issues that he must overtake from time to time......

So we must consider this fact too when we talk about the releasing date of Komodo MP........
Dr.D

[IGarcia]

[...] but when Rybka came along I could tell I had a big gun, it was different from all of my other programs, I could create a new ID at any chess server and in two days be at the highest rating with top hardware, I could not do it with other programs at the time. With Shredder and Tiger with a good book and good hardware I could slowly get to the top, then Houdini, Just go look at all of the badasses at chessbase, I mean the badass operators and owners, they will only play with the best, best book best hardware, best program, those top guys are only there for the blood [...]

kgburcham

Sorry to be off-topic, but when I read posts like these quoted I really get lost about the people interests in this forum.

Of course I have to admit we all are different, but with too much frequency I found in this forums people I don't understand. Some time i think there are kids posting, and other time the post are so absurd making believe the author has some cognitive or language problem.

Now, in this post I realized how different we are. And if in a comic-forum something imagine a fight between HULK-BATMAN, why is not possible to see here something imagining here a Komodo5-MP 64 cpu vas Rybka-296 CPU 1 move a month 100 game match. Worst: making a POLL about the outcome... and even worst: so many people voting! indicating the one hight is not alone!!

Sory if I'm rude. There is no intention to hurt. Maybe I'm really looking for other stuff here.I would like to see a poll about what do we expect on this forums, witch are our interests. Why we need a chess engine? etc
Regards.
Igna.

I don't understand your point.
If you are saying that you find the top elo games in the world boring, then I can understand what you mean.
To be the best gamer you have to play the best move each move, most programs cannot do it, and humans are far from it. It is another type of chess and I know it irritates the human that studies chess and can play the game OTB.
I appreciate the OTB player and the programmer that wrote the 2500 elo program. I know I should respect the guys that run tournaments with 2000 elo programs. I do.
Like I said, I am not sure your points so maybe I did not even reply.
I just went back and read your post again, not sure what you were saying, I wish I knew because it seemed full of energy and those are the best kind.
You wont hurt.
kgburcham

Well, your post, special the quoted part, where you tell us how you combine an engine with your hardware to manage in a couple of days get into the top list showed me another (different) use of computer chess.

The point is this forum is about computer chess, BUT there is a big difference to every one about what we are looking for in computer chess.

So from the time I started reading this forum I get much of what i was looking for, but in the middle I seen tons of crazy things. Yours just another one. See, for me there is nothing interesting on building a monster to create an ID and be on top rating list. I'm not against you, just i don't understand the joy.

One day someone post complaining about how "must be rich" people waste tons of money in hardware. Then, someone stats "In the end, chess is just a stupid game".

Later there is a poll about an "imaginary match" in "imaginary hardware" with "imaginary software" (rybka-5 , komodo 5MP) with non-sense time controls. Ans people reply with numbers and probablility % results.

Adding to all that, you are right about some chess programmers , very good ones, but is vomiting to read their pedantic posts. Over that some people blaming Houdart, or Vas, or Don...(etcetera)

Why all this is strange for me? Because I just like chess. Computer chess is "for me" just a tool to help me learn and get better at chess. So I come here to be up to date with engine releases, chess tools like FinalGen, game databases and other tools.

When someone post a test position I carefully avoid looking the solution and try to solve myself, as human. And almost never load in a engine. For what?

Another interest is because as an amateur programmer maybe I decide to make my engine, just for fun, to learn more on programming and in the way lean more chess as human. I also enjoy information and games about computer tournaments. And there are many nice topics that fits my expectations.

What is your interest in computer chess? what you are looking for?
Te reply to those questions based on what people writes here is what makes me think some of us are crazy (very)

Igna.

[S.Taylor]

What is your interest in computer chess? what you are looking for?
Te reply to those questions based on what people writes here is what makes me think some of us are crazy (very)

Igna.

I was waiting for a really good one to come out, that would be able to see, what a human WC level GM can see, only through help of intuition.
I think Houdini has reached this now, and would like to use it to find things, analyze, test positions, train with etc.
From this point on, i will always be sastisfied. Much before now, i still felt something was missing, in computer chess vision.
I was always waiting for the day i could feel satisfied with a chess program chess level, and i never wanted to wait till my dying day for it!
I don't understand how some people will never be satisfied.
But if they like it that way, then i wouldn't deny them that pleasure.
But for me, it's as i have described.

[GenoM]

I think Houdini has a bright future.

hmmm...

Osipov was silent for some time...

I wonder if he's preparing a new Strelka...

Regards,
Geno