Best 2012 chess GUI ?

[Modern Times]

Why will the FSF go against Wzeta? The Fruit/Rybka case is worst because one is selling GLP code.

The validity of that statement depends on which expert you talk to.

[IGarcia]

Why will the FSF go against Wzeta? The Fruit/Rybka case is worst because one is selling GLP code. Wzeta as you pointed is a customized old winboard. It will not put in risk the Win/Xboard proyect.

The sole purpose of existence of the FSF is to uphold the GPL. In no case they have to expect any financial gains from such action: if they win, the copyright infringer will be forced to release the modified source code, and that is pretty much it. So it is of little importance whether the infringer earns money or not. Selling GPL'ed programs is not in any way against the GPL.

When you copy the idea not the code form a GPL you know what I mean: its rewriting the algorithm, most of cases just to avoid GPL infringement. In other words, fooling the GLP.

I don't see why you consider that 'fooling the GPL'. Algorithms are not covered by copyright. Rewriting is a lot of work, (any conversion that could be done in a automated way would not be recognized as a rewrite, and still fall under the oiginal copyights protection), and it seems reasonable that he who invests that much in it should not be denied the full fruits of his endeavor. Most software does not contain any worthwile novel algorithms. XBoard certainly does not. If you have software that does, and do not want the algorithms to become public domain, you would be a fool to release the sources under GPL.

Alex, if im not wrong, its form Mexico, and doing whatever you like with software in Latin America very common, as taking drugs in your country.

Basically you are saying that we should excuse Alex from acting like a thief, because theft is common in Mexico.

Not that it bears any relevance for this discussion, but FYI: taking drugs here is in fact much less common than in most countries that surround us, exactly because our drug policy makes soft drugs cheaply available, so that it is in nobodies interest to promote drug (ab)use. Do not confuse usage with availability, they are quite distinct quantities.

so you always right?

Alex, because is in Mexico (as in all Latin america) will be Rolling on the flor laughing while you call the FSF. Why to take all so in context? Are you a lawyer?.

Im just saing its normal to give a s**t for license, copyrights and all *righs related to software in Latin america, its something happening.

I don't agree or disagree. I'm not saying its legal neither its legal because its common to do illegal things. Just try to get the point.

Im not trying to convince you, and you will not convince me about this. GPL its great to make software available for many people, most cases free. Doesn't matter (for me and many others)* if the final product its GPL, commercial or whatever. Windboard Zeta, Stockfish, Rybka and much more are examples what we are getting, legal or not GPL or not. Thats another question.

GPL fails to enforce all derivatives to be GPL, thats a fact. Maybe you can argue about this, maybe you dont like the reality. Now its stoopid to discuss in a chess forum about GPL, this has be done in better way in specific places.

My resumme: You can shout, scream, jump: Windows_Z is there in the cloud, it exists, I have it in my computer, I use it, I like it (less than scid). And all the GLP arguments cant do nothing with those facts.

*: See the case Rybka, is a GPL infringement and people still uses. Worst: Still buy it.

[hgm]

I don't understand what you get so worked up about. I never said WinBoard Zeta did not exist, is not there, or that you could not use it.

All I said is that it is that not complying with the GPL makes you a code thief. If building a reputation as code thief makes someone so ecstatically happy that they they get a fit, by all means, let them roll where they want. I think, however, that you have a rather low opinion of Alex, and Mexicans in general, to assume that they would not care.

And it seems you misunderstand the range and purpose of the GPL (which is not to prevent derivatives), but, like you say, that is rather off-topic. Can I remind you that YOU started this allegedly 'stoopid' discussion about it? I just informed people that no source code was included with WinBoard Zeta, which is a simple fact, not open to any discussion.

And even this is a side track: the original point was that WinBoard Zeta cannot be taken as "the latest representative of the WinBoard/XBoard family". It does not even have an XBoard equivalent. So that people using XBoard, or that are accustomed to using a WinBoard version that does not throw them back into the dark ages, rightfully feel highly discriminated that they cannot vote for their favorite GUI in this poll. That WinBoard Zeta so far is also a copyright infringement is only coincidental to that.

[Andres Valverde]

I use :

FSTM + Winboard 4.6.2 for serious testing (Waiting for new FSTM version BTW, Ferminnnnn..)
ARENA for quick testing, EPD analysis, human vs comp play etc etc. Great piece of software.

[IGarcia]

I think, however, that you have a rather low opinion of Alex, and Mexicans in general, to assume that they would not care.

Well, its what you think.

As usual discussions with you turns complex. Its ok. Maybe there are some langauge problems helping to incomunicate.

My point is: no matter what you think, or who will call from the FSF or the FBI.

The fact is many do like Winboard_zeta, many will prefer Winboard_Zeta and many other (no mater if right or not) will be considering it as part of Winboard family.

You can call the FBI to enforce the code publication, or to make Alex change the name, or to delete from the web...

But, Muller, whats all the problem about?. Sure you will keep improving the real Winboard and because its not obsolete, because it has more features than Winboard_Zeta, people will keep using your version and leave a side his old "illegal" brother Zeta.

ok, going for some games in WBZ!
cya

[IGarcia]

Why will the FSF go against Wzeta? The Fruit/Rybka case is worst because one is selling GLP code.

The validity of that statement depends on which expert you talk to.

Sure, thats why has to be some action taken till its solved.

This goes to my point: nobody cares,

not the controversial author, the company selling it, the buyer, the postal company transpoting illegal stuff, the FSF, etc...

So why someone will care on Winboard_Zeta ?

[hgm]

But, Muller, whats all the problem about?.

The problem is actually quite simple: I want to cast a vote in a poll on what I think is the best 2012 chess GUI, and that my choice is not amongst the options. Like that of XBoard users is not amongst the options.

If the last choice of the poll had said: WinBoard/XBoard, I, as well as XBoard users, as well as WinBoard Zeta users could all have happily voted for it. But you cannot expect XBoard or WinBoard 4.6.2 users to vote for an entry that specifically says: WinBoard Zeta. It is just not the same thing. ChessBase users are also not forced to vote for ChessBase 7...

Why Alex appears here to defend the undefensible, you would have to ask him, and why you want to talk about meaning and purpose of the GPL when someone obviously violates it, you probably know best yourself.

[IGarcia]

But, Muller, whats all the problem about?.

The problem is actually quite simple: I want to cast a vote in a poll on what I think is the best 2012 chess GUI, and that my choice is not amongst the options. Like that of XBoard users is not amongst the options.

Solved!

See the unbiased GUI poll.