What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

What should Robert do ?

Leave things as they are, I don't care
24
26%
Give credit to Norman and Milos for their initial work
20
22%
Compensate Norman and Milos financially
6
7%
I only want Robert to admit the Robbolito origin
41
45%
 
Total votes: 91

User avatar
velmarin
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 am

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by velmarin »

JuLieN wrote:If Jose doesn't believe me, then maybe he will believe the GNU foundation themselves:
If a program combines public-domain code with GPL-covered code, can I take the public-domain part and use it as public domain code?

You can do that, if you can figure out which part is the public domain part and separate it from the rest. If code was put in the public domain by its developer, it is in the public domain no matter where it has been.
Source: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en. ... ainWithGPL

Code: Select all

 Si el código fue puesto en el dominio público por su desarrollador, es de dominio público sin importar dónde ha estado.

Code: Select all

Si le code a été mis dans le domaine public par son développeur, est du domaine public, peu importe d'où vous venez.

Julien, this translates me the browser,

This gives me the reason, and for me it is clear, like water.

Public domain, public domain.
[/code]
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JuLieN
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Location: Bordeaux (France)
Full name: Julien Marcel

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by JuLieN »

velmarin wrote:
JuLieN wrote:If Jose doesn't believe me, then maybe he will believe the GNU foundation themselves:
If a program combines public-domain code with GPL-covered code, can I take the public-domain part and use it as public domain code?

You can do that, if you can figure out which part is the public domain part and separate it from the rest. If code was put in the public domain by its developer, it is in the public domain no matter where it has been.
Source: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en. ... ainWithGPL

Code: Select all

 Si el código fue puesto en el dominio público por su desarrollador, es de dominio público sin importar dónde ha estado.

Code: Select all

Si le code a été mis dans le domaine public par son développeur, est du domaine public, peu importe d'où vous venez.

Julien, this translates me the browser,

This gives me the reason, and for me it is clear, like water.

Public domain, public domain.
[/code]
Jose, this is my last attempt to make you understand. If you take a public domain source code and make additions to it, you are totally free to place those additions under GPL. The resulting program will have parts that are public-domain, and parts that are covered with GPL.

Here's an example:

HelloLito:

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/* HelloLito is domain public code. Long live the revolution! */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, world\n");
}
HelloLito Extreme:

Code: Select all

/* HelloLito is domain public code. Long live the revolution! */

/* HelloLito Extreme is released under GPL */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, world\n");
    printf("I meant hellolito, world\n");
}
As I... and then the GPL FAQ told you, if you can distinguish in HelloLito Extreme which parts are GPLed (here, the second printf line) and which part are public domain, then you can make a private program with just the public domain parts and your own additions (but then it's simpler to start from HelloLito than from HelloLito Extreme, isn't it? ;) ). But if you start from HelloLito Extreme and keep the GPLed part, then your program will at least have to publish the parts of your program that were derived from the GPL parts of Hellolito Extreme.

For instance, let's imagine that someone decides to make a BouqueLito program:

Case 1: he starts from HelloLito:

Code: Select all

/* BouqueLito is not public domain code. Long live capitalism! */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, greedy world\n");
    printf("I am the king of the florist!\n");
}
Fine, this is ok: HelloLito was public domain.

Case 2: he starts from HelloLito Extreme:

Code: Select all

/* BouqueLito is not public domain code. Long live capitalism! */

#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
    printf("hello, world\n");
    printf("I meant Bouquelito, greedy world\n");
    printf("I am the king of the florist!\n");
}
Then he'd have to at least publish the part he derived from the GPLed parts of the source program. (Here printf("I meant Bouquelito, greedy world\n"); )
Then he would have to publish the part of his codes
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
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User avatar
velmarin
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 am

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by velmarin »

Sorry, now you say,

parties shall,

I agree, strongly agree, will have parts.

Norman not differentiate even speaks of Mersenne Twister, he,he.

Sorry Julen, already clear,
part one 99 % 100, public domain,
Part two, one for 100, norman GPL unspecified.
Beatiful ¡¡¡¡¡
User avatar
Don
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:27 pm

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by Don »

Rebel wrote:
Lavir wrote:
Rebel wrote: That's a question for the Engine Origin section of this board. If you wish I can answer you overthere and more or less did in this thread.
Thank you. I will do.

Concerning however what you wrote in that thread, those proofs are just translated terms that are however present both in the free and gpl sources, so they still reside in the public domain (as I said, translation of a term cannot represent proprietary work because *everybody* can do the same; it wouldn't be doable to for example taking the source of a freeware game, translate captions and then publish the same under GPL license and having people subject to the same; it couldn't be enforced).
What you need is the source code of the Italian version (0084) and the English version (0085e). Then open the file utilita.c (0084) and utils.c (0085e). You will see the exact order of 19 error messages as they appear in Houdini 1.0. The chance of 2 programmers writing such code independently is zero.
I hate that this thread is polluted with these denials. This is not even in question so it's not interesting. I could present tons of other evidence too such as the 1 ply search statistics overwhelmingly playing exactly the same move 100 out of 100 times and other source code analysis that has been collected. HOWEVER, that is not longer a hot topic and we could go to 100 other threads in EO to argue and dispute that. And nobody cares about evidence anyway if they want to believe something different.

This thread is only interesting because of the subject matter, what should Robert do if anything. "What did Robert do" is the contents of 1000 other threads and a way to waste your time.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.
jdart
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
Location: http://www.arasanchess.org

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by jdart »

Ippolit as far as I know was released with neither copyright nor license.

Leaving aside questions of origin, Robbolito was released under GPL 3, at least the 0.09 version I have was. It is not just "freeware," it is freeware with a license. So no one is allowed to derive from the code and release a closed-source version.

--Jon
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hgm
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Location: Amsterdam
Full name: H G Muller

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by hgm »

User avatar
velmarin
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 am

Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by velmarin »

jdart wrote:Ippolit as far as I know was released with neither copyright nor license.

Leaving aside questions of origin, Robbolito was released under GPL 3, at least the 0.09 version I have was. It is not just "freeware," it is freeware with a license. So no one is allowed to derive from the code and release a closed-source version.

--Jon
There you have the code Robbolito original
0.9 was the last, that's a Mod

http://chess.cygnitec.com/engine/robbolito/source/

uci() of Robbolito.084. wuan robbo.

Code: Select all

void
uci ()
{
  TRASMISSIONE ("id name RobboLito version %s\n", VERSION);
  TRASMISSIONE ("id author Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin, ");
  TRASMISSIONE ("Igor Igorovoich Igoronov, Roberto Pescatore\n");
  TRASMISSIONE ("id copyright Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin (all), "
		"92th year from Revolution, PUBLICDOMAIN (workers)\n");
  TRASMISSIONE ("id dedication To Vladimir Ilyich\n");
  TRASMISSIONE
    ("option name TranspositionalTabularSizing (Zobrist) in MegaBytes.");
  TRASMISSIONE (" Note: Only dyadic powers suffice terminally! ");
  TRASMISSIONE ("type spin min 1 max 16384 default 32\n");
  TRASMISSIONE ("uciok\n");
}



Robbolito.085g3,

Code: Select all

/*
RobboLito is a UCI chess playing engine by
Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin, Igor Igorovich Igoronov, Roberto Pescatore
copyright: (C) 2009 Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin
date: 92th and 93rd year from Revolution
owners: PUBLICDOMAIN (workers)
dedication: To Vladimir Ilyich

RobboLito is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published
by the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License,
or (at your option) any later version.

RobboLito is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program. If not, see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/.
*/

#include "robbolito.h"
#include "monitor.h"
#include "search.h"

void uci()
    {
    numCPU = check_num_CPU();
    PONDER = FALSE;
    MPH = 2;
    printf("id name " NAME "\n");
    printf("id author Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin, Igor Igorovich Igoronov, Roberto Pescatore\n");
    printf("id copyright Yakov Petrovich Golyadkin\n");
    printf("id date 92th and 93rd year from Revolution\n");
    printf("id owners PUBLICDOMAIN (workers)\n");
    printf("id dedication To Vladimir Ilyich\n");
    printf("option name Hash type spin default 128 min 4 max 16384\n");
    printf("option name Ponder type check default false\n");
    printf("option name Move on Ponderhit type combo var Never var Sometimes var Always default Sometimes\n");
    printf("uciok\n");
    fflush(stdout);
    }

PUBLICDOMAIN
jdart
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Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by jdart »

See however the statement here: http://www.chesslogik.com/robbolito.htm, complaining about GPL violation and stating that for this reason Robbolito source code is not longer available. My copy came with a copy of GPL included.

I am really amazed how many people are willing to just wish something into the public domain, because they want it to be. When I worked at a commercial software company, everything that went into the product from an external source was subject to legal review. And if the legal team saw anything they didn't like in the license, it was not approved. They didn't trust the engineers to do that review or make that judgement.

--Jon
gerold
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Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by gerold »

Here it goes again. Same old Same old.
He would have to give credit to:
Fruit,Rybka,Ipp, etc. And don't forget Crafty.

Best,
Gerold.

P.S. I didn't vote your poll is incomplete.
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velmarin
Posts: 1600
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Re: What should Robert do? (read post first before you vote)

Post by velmarin »

jdart wrote:See however the statement here: http://www.chesslogik.com/robbolito.htm, complaining about GPL violation and stating that for this reason Robbolito source code is not longer available. My copy came with a copy of GPL included.

I am really amazed how many people are willing to just wish something into the public domain, because they want it to be. When I worked at a commercial software company, everything that went into the product from an external source was subject to legal review. And if the legal team saw anything they didn't like in the license, it was not approved. They didn't trust the engineers to do that review or make that judgement.

--Jon
Sorry, this site is of Norman,

As Norman said, has monopolized Robbolito, not think so.

Ipppolit official site is the wiki.
http://ippolit.wikispaces.com/wiki

Sources:
http://chess.cygnitec.com/engine/