Total mess

[Red Hood]

I would like to what Houdini 3 says. Play a shootout with Houdini 3!
Shootout means that engine plays against itself from a certain position.

Maybe some hardware big shots from this forum can put hardware to good use with Houdini 3 x64. With decent hardware the position above is draw. I guess.

Best Regards, Red Hood

[Thanar]

I'd love to see a shootout with Houdini 3, or, better yet, someone using incremental analysis (IDeA) with Houdini 3 on the position.

Until that day comes, we'll have to make due. I have found some improvements for White, compared to my analysis above. But, in each of those improvements, I've also found a way for Black to pull out a win, in every case I've analyzed. Some of the wins are very interesting to watch (queening races, blockades, subtle fork threats, etc.)

Here's a pgn dump of the lines I investigated after 1...g5 2.Rcd1 f4 3.Re2 3...Kf7 4.Rc1 e3 5.Be1 f3 6.gxf3 Nef4 7.Rh2 Bf5 8.Kh1 Bxh3 9.Rcc2 Bf5 10.Ra2 Ke6 11.Ra1 Bd3

[d]8/8/p3k3/Pp1nP1p1/1PpP1n1p/2PbpP2/7R/R3B2K w - - 6 12

12. Bxh4 gxh4 13. Rxh4 Ng6 14. Rh7 Nxe5 (14... Nxe5) (14... Nxe5 {-1.33 (depth23)} 15. Rh6+ Ng6 16. Re1 Nxc3 17. Rxe3+ Kd5 18. Re1 Kxd4 19. Re6 Nd5 20. Rxa6c3 21. Rh2 Ngf4 22. Ra8 Be2 23. Rc8 Bxf3+ 24. Kg1 Nxb4 25. a6 Nxa6 26. Rh4 Bb727. Rxf4+ Ke3 28. Rcf8 b4) (14... Nxe5 {-1.56 (depth 23)} 15. Rh8 Nxf3 16.Kg2 Be4 17. Re8+ Kf5 18. Rf8+ Kg4 19. Rg8+ Ng5+ 20. Kh2 Kh4 21. Rh8+ Bh7 22.Kg2 Nf4+ 23. Kh2 e2 24. d5 Nxd5 25. Kg2 Nxc3 26. Kf2 Kg4 27. Rg1+ Kf4 28. Rxg5Ne4+) (14... Nxe5 {-2.32 (depth 22)} 15. Rh3 Ng6 16. Rh7 Nxc3 17. Ra7 Kd5 18.Rxa6 Nb1 19. Ra2 c3 20. Ra8 c2 21. Rxc2 Bxc2 22. Re8 Kxd4 23. a6 Ne5 24. Rd8+Kc4 25. Rc8+ Kb3 26. Re8 Nc6 27. Rxe3+ Kxb4 28. Re7 Bd1) {Houdini 1.5a w32-0.69 (depth 23)} 15. Ra7 Nxf3 16. Rxa6+ Kd7 17. Ra7+ Kd6 {Houdini 1.5a w32-0.63 (depth 21)} 18. Ra6+ Kc7 19. Ra7+ Kb8 20. Rd7 Be4 21. Rd8+ Kc7 22. Re8Ng5+ 23. Kh2 e2 (23... Nxc3 24. a6 e2 25. a7 {Houdini 1.5a w32 -0.18 (depth20)} Nf3+ 26. Kh3 Bd5 27. a8=Q Bxa8 28. Raxa8 {Houdini 1.5a w32 0.00 (depth21)} Ne4 29. d5 Nf6 30. Rac8+ Kd6 31. Rc6+ Kxd5 32. Rxf6 e1=Q 33. Rxe1 Nxe134. Rb6 Nd3 35. Rxb5+ Kd4 36. Kg3 c3 37. Rb8 Kc4 38. Rc8+ Kxb4 39. Rxc3 Kxc3) 24. Kg3 ( {Houdini 1.5a w32 -0.75 (depth 22)} 24. Re5 Nf3+ 25. Kg3 Nxe5 26.dxe5 {Houdini 1.5a w32 -1.46 (depth 21)} Bd3 (26... Nxc3 27. Kf2 Nd5 28. Kxe2Nxb4 29. e6 Kd6 30. a6 Ba8 31. Kd2 Nd5 32. Re1 b4 33. Kc2 Ke7 34. Re4 Nc7 35.Rxc4 Nxa6 36. Rh4 Bc6 37. Kd3 Kxe6) 27. e6 Nxc3 (27... Ne3 28. e7 Kd7 29. Kf2Nc2 30. Rc1 e1=Q+ 31. Rxe1 Nxe1 32. Kxe1 Kxe7 33. Kf2 Kd6 34. Ke3 Kd7 35. Kd4Kc6 36. Ke5 Kb7 37. Kd6 Ka6 38. Kd5 Bh7 39. Ke6 Be4 40. Kd6 Bb1) 28. e7{Houdini 1.5a w32 -0.95 (depth 23)} Kd7 29. Rg1 Ne4+ 30. Kf3 Nd6 31. a6 Nc832. Kf2 Kxe7 33. Rg5 c3 34. Rg1 Kd7 35. a7 Nxa7 36. Rg3 Bc4 37. Rg7+ Kd6 38.Rxa7 Kd5 39. Ke1 Bd3 40. Rc7 Kd4 41. Rc8 c2 42. Kd2 e1=B+ 43. Kc1 Bxb4 44. Kb2Bd2 {Houdini 1.5a w32 #-19 (depth 24)} 45. Rd8+ Ke3 46. Re8+ Be4 47. Rc8 Bf548. Rc6 Bd3 49. Rc8 c1=Q+ 50. Rxc1 Bxc1+ 51. Kxc1 Kd4 52. Kd2 Kc4 53. Ke3{Houdini 1.5a w32 #10 (depth 26)} b4 54. Kf4 b3 55. Kg5 b2 56. Kf6 b1=Q 57.Ke6 Qf1 58. Kd6 Qf6+ 59. Kd7 Bf5+ 60. Kc7 Qa6 61. Kd8 Qd6+ 62. Ke8 Bg6#) (24.a6 Nf3+ 25. Kh3 e1=Q 26. Rxe1 Nxe1 27. a7 Nd3 28. a8=Q N5f4+ 29. Kh4 Bxa8 30.Rxa8 {Houdini 1.5a w32 -2.97 (depth 25)} Kb6 31. Ra3 Nd5 32. Kg4 Nb2 33. Ra8Nxc3 34. Rb8+ Kc6 35. Rh8 Nd3 36. Rh6+ Kd5 37. Kf3 Nxb4 38. Ke3 Nd3 39. Rh5+Kc6 {Houdini 1.5a w32 -4.51 (depth 19)} 40. Rh6+ Kc7 41. Rh2 Kb6 42. Rh6+ Ka543. Rh5 Nb4 44. Rh8 Nbd5+ 45. Kd2 b4 46. Ra8+ Kb6 47. Rc8 b3 48. Kc1 Kb5 49.Kb2 Nd1+ 50. Kb1 Kb4 51. Rb8+ Kc3 52. Rh8 Kxd4 53. Rh4+ Kc3 54. Rh1 {Houdini1.5a w32 #14 (depth 26)} Nf2 55. Rh2 Nd3 56. Rh8 Kd4 57. Rh4+ N5f4 58. Rh8 c359. Rh2 Kc4 60. Rc2 bxc2+ 61. Kxc2 Nb2 62. Kb1 Kb3 63. Ka1 Nfd3 64. Kb1 c2+ 65.Ka1 c1=Q#) 24... Nxc3 25. Kf2 Bd3 26. Ke1 Kd7 27. Re3 Nd5 (27... Nd5 {Houdini1.5a w32 -5.67 (depth 28)} 28. Rg3 Nxb4 29. Rc1 Ne6 30. Kf2 Nxd4 31. Rg4 Ndc232. Rg5 Kc6 33. Re5 e1=Q+ 34. Rexe1 Nxe1 35. Kxe1 Kb7 36. Kd2 Ka6 37. Rg1 Nd538. Rg8 Kxa5 39. Rb8 Kb4 40. Rc8 Bf5 41. Rf8) (27... Nd5 {-5.70 (depth 28)} 28. Kd2 Nxe3 29. Kxe3 Kc7 30. a6 Kb8 31. Re1 Ne4 32. d5 Ka7 33. Ra1 Ng3 34. Kf3Nf5 35. Kf2 c3 36. Rc1 c2 37. d6 Nxd6 38. Ke3 Bc4 39. Kd2 Ne4+ 40. Ke3 Ng5 41.Kf2) (27... Nd5 {-5.71 (depth 29)} 28. Kf2 Nxe3 29. Kxe3 Kc7 30. a6 Kb8 31.Re1 Ne4 32. d5 Ka7 33. Ra1 Ng3 34. Kf3 Nf5 35. Kf2 c3 36. Rc1 c2 37. d6 Nxd638. Ke3 Bc4 39. Kd2 Ne4+ 40. Ke3 Ng5 41. Kf2) (27... Nd5 {-5.98 (depth 28)} 28. Rxe2 Nf3+ 29. Kf2 Bxe2 30. Rh1 Nxb4 31. Rh7+ Kc6 32. Rh6+ Kb7 33. Kxe2Nxd4+ 34. Kd2 Nb3+ 35. Kc3 Nd5+ 36. Kc2 Nxa5 37. Kb2 Nc6 38. Rh5 Ncb4 39. Kc1c3 40. Kd1 Kb6 41. Rh6+)

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Could you please shed some light on what are the evals of Houdini? At what point does the engine start seeing black in advantage and what about the initial position?

Houdini 1.5’s evaluation of the initial position is in White’s favour, with the evaluation generally sinking as it has more time to evaluate. For example at depth 20, its evaluation is +1.00, but it drops to +.73 at depth 21.

Here are some Houdini 1.5 evaluations for my continuation (1...g5 2.Kh2 f4 3.Rh1 Kf7 4.Rhd1 e3 5.Be1 Ke7 6.Ra1 Be4 7.Ra2 f3 8.gxf3 Bxf3 9.Rb1 Be4 10.Rbb2 Nef4 11.Ra1 Bf5 12.Raa2 Bxh3 13.Kg1 Ke6 14.Rh2 Bf5 15.Kf1 Bh3+ 16.Kg1 Bg4 17.Kf1 Kf5 18.Rac2 Nd3 19.Ra2 Nxe1 20.Kxe1 Nxc3 21.Rag2 Nd5 22.Kf1 Nxb4 23.e6 Bh5 24.e7 c3 25.Rg1 c2 26.Kg2 Nd3 27.e8=Q Bxe8 28.Kf3 c1=Q 29.Rxc1 Nxc1 30.Kxe3 Nb3 31.Rf2+ Kg4 32.Rg2+ Kh5 33.d5 Nxa5):

From 4…e3 to 6.Ra1, Houdini 1.5 evaluates the position as equal (0.0 at depth 21). But after Be4, the evaluation tips slightly in Black’s favour (-0.22 at depth 25). The evaluation remains at -0.22 until 11…Bf5 where it moves to -.80 at depth 20 (and plummets further as the search depth increases). After 18...Nd3, the evaluation is -1.26 at depth 19, and after 20...Nxc3 it is -3.12 at depth 17.

Many thanks, Terry!
Very instructive analysis, and again, brilliant play on the part of Houdini, despite a bit shaky eval in the beginning.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Many thanks, Terry!
Beautiful positions..
Many thanks for the effort. I appreciated it very much.