Still possible

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

Moderator: Ras

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Still possible

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

mcostalba wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: Believe it or not, on the 3rd day of actively sparring against Stockfish, I finally managed to win a game!
Congratulations Lyudmil !! :-)

A real win of a real game ! Really impressive. I'd suggest to repost this game on the main forum, I think many people would be interested.
Thank you, Marco! Really very kind of you.

I know it hurts to lose, but sometimes you have to accept the facts :shock:

No one is interested in stupid games or theories, but everyone likes to play against a cute engine.

Please keep up the good work on Stock, as I have to beat someone also in the future...
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Still possible

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

carldaman wrote:Very well done, Lyudmil. Almost incredible that in 2013 a top engine can still be defeated by the good ole Stonewall Attack (an underrated opening!). Back in the old days, 15-20 years ago, this was a routine strategy that pretty much guaranteed a win for the human player, but now?! 8-) :o
Now it guarantees bumping into an engine stonewall.
Hope you will also post some win over Stock, Carl, in the near future.
carldaman
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:13 am

Re: Still possible

Post by carldaman »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
carldaman wrote:Very well done, Lyudmil. Almost incredible that in 2013 a top engine can still be defeated by the good ole Stonewall Attack (an underrated opening!). Back in the old days, 15-20 years ago, this was a routine strategy that pretty much guaranteed a win for the human player, but now?! 8-) :o
Now it guarantees bumping into an engine stonewall.
Hope you will also post some win over Stock, Carl, in the near future.
Hah, unlikely, I'd say, as these days I prefer sparring with engines from the opposite end of the spectrum. The reason is I can play more freely this way, without having the slightest error punished. The strongest engines would condition me that way, so I would play way too cautiously or passively. I do like to employ stuff like the Stonewall Attack, but I'd rather be able to play more open games and not have to avoid tactics, an approach that fares better against weaker engines, and serves as better prep vs human players.
carldaman
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:13 am

Re: Still possible

Post by carldaman »

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: Hi Carl.
Thanks for your conceptions.

My case is a bit different story: for some unknown reason I have always played much much better when enjoying quiet surroundings. My performance when you have a lot of quiet/concentration, and when the level of quiet/concentration drops, is very much different. I would play very well, when able to concentrate deep, and very bad, when unable to. For this reason I am not well suited for competitive tournament chess, when conditions between tournaments in terms of noise differ significantly.

I remember that when I was still a relatively weak player (2000 elo), I would play blitz games for fun against some master level players. As I usually was younger in this case, I would draw a match under normal noise conditions (for Bulgaria that might mean playing in a cafe, for example, as in the last 25 years or so a lot of the existing town chess clubs closed their doors, or in the park), with normal level of noise, just a few kibitzers, etc.; then, when the level of noise started rising, for example when you have a throng of kibitzers around eagerly suggesting your next move :D , I would start playing very bad, losing most of the games, with my opponent usually unaffected; but, when we transferred to a more quiet location to continue the match, a private room, even better during the night, I would suddenly start winning every single game.

It was like that once, and nothing has changed till now. Therefore, I am not a good competitive player, but that does not mean that I am objectively weak.

Style testing' seems like an interesting enterprise to me :)

Concerning books, I think GMs might well avoid all computer opening preparation by simply picking up an inexisting opening line very early on (let's say, by playing seemingly a very slightly inferior move that promises unchartered waters; in this case, you need no opening preparation at all). The real challenge would be to remain unruffled during the course of the entire game, which is easy for computers, that do not have affections, but difficult or fully impossible for humans who are influenced by a variety of non-chess situations (someone distracting your attention, intrusive thoughts unrelated to the event, getting nervous under certain conditions, etc.). I think engines still have less knowledge than humans, but you need to make just a single bigger mistake and it is over (like Kramnik missing a mate in 1 against Fritz).
I can easily identify with the issues of playing competitive chess, which I also gave up years ago. Audible disturbances, visual distractions, even feeling actual 'bad vibes' around me, and poor stamina for long games all made it less and less enjoyable to play in tournaments. Then, online chess came about, and there was even less of reason to bother with it.

In regards to deviating from known theory early, back in my playing days I came to the same conclusion, thinking basically that 'if a player doesn't know book, neither will his opponent'. Leaving book at a time of one's own choosing (especially) can pose problems and really put the question to any opponent, human or machine. I used to prepare vs booked-up players this way -- at a certain pre-determined point I was ready to enter murky non-theoretical waters.
cetormenter
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:46 pm

Re: Still possible

Post by cetormenter »

The key position seems to occur here:

[d]2rrb1k1/1p2bp2/p3p1p1/q1ppP1P1/3P3Q/2P1PN1P/PPBB1K2/R7 b - - 0 6

Stockfish plays the blunder Bc6??, which is evaluated at about 1 pawn ahead for black. Upon playing Nh2 the evaluation jumps immediately to 2 pawns ahead for white. It seems that Stockfish needs to reach depth 21-22 to see its impending doom. Even going back and playing some of the alternate moves that Stockfish was contemplating does not work. All of them are refuted by Nh2. Houdini on the other hand does not seem to have any issues in this position and gives Ba4 and cxd4 as possibilities.
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Still possible

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

I will post a game or two more to end the topic.

Today I played a very interesting game against Stockfish. At one point I have a rook more, and in the end lost convincingly. The conclusion I drew is that Stockfish plays better a rook down.

Below the game, with myself again allowing more time for the moves (I hoped to win a second game, but not this time):

[pgn][PlyCount "140"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.09.15"]
[White "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Black "Stockfish 4 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A00"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "70"]
[MLFlags "000100"]

{1024MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. f3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1... e5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 2. e3
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 2... d5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 3. g3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 3... d4
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 4. e4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 4... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 5. d3
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 5... Nc6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 6. a3 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 6... Bc5
{[%emt 0:00:16]} 7. Bg2 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 7... O-O {[%emt 0:00:07]} 8. Ne2
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 8... a5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 9. O-O {[%emt 0:00:03]} 9... Qe8
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 10. h3 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 10... Bd7 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 11. f4
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 11... Nh5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 12. f5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 12... Nf6
{[%emt 0: 00:05]} 13. g4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 13... a4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 14. Ng3
{[%emt 0:00:08]} 14... Qe7 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 15. g5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 15... Ne8
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 16. h4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 16... Qd8 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 17. Nd2
{[%emt 0:00:34]} 17... Nd6 {[%emt 0:00: 00]} 18. Rf2 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 18... Qc8
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 19. Ndf1 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 19... Bb6 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 20. Nh2
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 20... Ne8 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 21. h5 {[%emt 0:00:45]} 21... Bc5
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 22. Bf3 {[%emt 0:00:24]} 22... Be7 {[%emt 0:00: 12]} 23. Bg4
{[%emt 0:00:35]} 23... b6 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 24. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 24... Ra5
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 25. Rh2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 25... Ra8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 26. Kg2
{[%emt 0:00:12]} 26... Nd6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 27. Bd2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 27... Qe8
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 28. Qe2 {[%emt 0:00:16]} 28... Bc8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 29. Kh1
{[%emt 0:00:35]} 29... Rb8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 30. Qg2 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 30... Kh8
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 31. Qh3 {[%emt 0: 00:06]} 31... Ra8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 32. Rg1
{[%emt 0:00:12]} 32... Ra7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 33. Nh4 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 33... Kg8
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 34. Ng6 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 34... Bxg5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 35. Bxg5
{[%emt 0:00:14]} 35... h6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 36. Nxf8 {[%emt 0:01: 51]} 36... Qxf8
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 37. Bd2 {[%emt 0:01:05]} 37... f6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 38. Bd1
{[%emt 0:00:08]} 38... Nf7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 39. Nf1 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 39... Bd7
{[%emt 0:00: 01]} 40. Rhg2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 40... Ng5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 41. Bxg5
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 41... fxg5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 42. Bg4 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 42... Ra8
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 43. f6 {[%emt 0:00:41]} 43... Bxg4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 44. Qxg4
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 44... Qxf6 {[%emt 0: 00:02]} 45. Ng3 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 45... Qd6
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 46. Rf1 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 46... Re8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 47. Rgf2
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 47... Nd8 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 48. Qf5 {[%emt 0:00:30]} 48... Qe6
{[%emt 0:00:00]} 49. Qg6 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 49... Qh3+ {[%emt 0:00: 03]} 50. Rh2
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 50... Qe6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 51. Nf5 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 51... Qxg6
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 52. hxg6 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 52... Ne6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 53. Ng3
{[%emt 0:00:10]} 53... Nf4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 54. Nh5 {[%emt 0:00:27]} 54... Nxg6
{[%emt 0:00: 00]} 55. Rhf2 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 55... Nf4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 56. Nxf4
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 56... exf4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 57. Kg2 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 57... Kf7
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 58. c3 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 58... Rd8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 59. Rc2
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 59... c5 {[%emt 0:00: 02]} 60. c4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 60... Ra8
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 61. Kf3 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 61... Ke6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 62. Kg4
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 62... Kf6 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 63. Rb1 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 63... h5+
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 64. Kf3 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 64... Ke5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 65. b3
{[%emt 0:00:11]} 65... g4+ {[%emt 0:00:02]} 66. Kg2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 66... axb3
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 67. Rxb3 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 67... h4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 68. Rxb6
{[%emt 0:00:18]} 68... Rxa3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 69. Rd2 {[%emt 0:00:41]} 69... f3+
{[%emt 0:00:01]} 70. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 70... Kf4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 0-1
[/pgn]

And some key positions:

[d]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/5P2/PPPPP1PP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 1
Obviously, Stockfish has difficulties against 1.f3.

[d]r3qrk1/1ppb1ppp/2n2n2/p1b1pP2/3pP1P1/P2P3P/1PP1N1B1/RNBQ1RK1 b - - 0 13
A position very well known to me, maybe Stockfish neglects white's attacking chances.

[d]r1q1nrk1/1ppb1ppp/1bn5/4pPPP/p2pP3/P2P2N1/1PP2RBN/R1BQ2K1 b - - 0 21
A pitched battle is about to follow

[d]2b1qrk1/r1p1bppp/1pnn2N1/4pPPP/p2pP1B1/P2P2NQ/1PPB3R/6RK b - - 0 34
Funny and obvious

[d]2b2qk1/r1p2pp1/1pnn3p/4pP1P/p2pP1B1/P2P2NQ/1PPB3R/6RK b - - 0 37
Probably missed mate, but Stockfish is now a rook down.

[d]4r1k1/2p3p1/1p4Pp/4p1p1/p2pPn2/P2P2N1/1PP4R/5R1K w - - 0 54
Stockfish suddenly gets visible counterchances

[d]3r4/5kp1/1p5p/2p3p1/p2pPp2/P1PP4/1PR3K1/5R2 w - - 0 60
I do not know, but those 3 connected passers, and a chain at that, are very dangerous.

[d]r7/6p1/1p3k2/2p3pp/p1PpPpK1/P2P4/1PR5/1R6 w - - 0 64
Suddenly the picture changes: the loser starts winning

[d]r7/6p1/1p6/2p1k3/2PpPppp/PR1P4/2R3K1/8 w - - 0 68
Fischer Stockfish in action

[d]8/6p1/1R6/2p5/2PpPkpp/r2P1p2/3R1K2/8 w - - 0 71
Nothing to do here, the 3 connected passers are tremendously strong.

Obviously, next time when I want to win against Stockfish, I should get a material advantage of at least a full queen to be certain of success.
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Still possible

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

Just to round up things, some more games, not entirely stupid.
I again played with more time, it seems that this has a big impact on the quality of games, I would like to play 1 hour games, but no time for that.

This could be the last portion, not to annoy people around. If some spectacular game is played in the future, I could reserve the right to post it.

[pgn][PlyCount "73"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.09.15"]
[White "Stockfish 4 64 SSE4.2"]
[Black "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B07"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "36"]
[MLFlags "000100"]

{1024MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 1... d6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 2.
Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 2... e6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 3... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 4. d4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 4... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 5. a3
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 5... Be7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6. Be2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 6... e5
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 7. dxe5 {[%emt 0: 00:05]} 7... Nxe5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 8. Be3
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 8... O-O {[%emt 0:00:03]} 9. O-O {[%emt 0:00:03]} 9... a6
{[%emt 0:00:10]} 10. Nxe5 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 10... dxe5 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 11. Bc4
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 11... Qxd1 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 12. Raxd1 {[%emt 0:00: 05]} 12...
Bg4 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 13. f3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 13... Be6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 14. Bxe6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 14... fxe6 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 15. Ne2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 15... Rad8
{[%emt 0: 00:06]} 16. Nc1 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 16... Rxd1 {[%emt 0:00:23]} 17. Rxd1
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 17... Rd8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 18. Rxd8+ {[%emt 0:00:02]} 18...
Bxd8 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 19. Nd3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 19... Nd7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 20.
Kf1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 20... c6 {[%emt 0:00: 15]} 21. Ke2 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 21...
Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 22. c4 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 22... g6 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 23. c5
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 23... Kg7 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 24. b3 {[%emt 0: 00:04]} 24... Bc7
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 25. Nb2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 25... Kf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 26. Nc4
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 26... Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 27. Kd3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 27... Kf6
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 28. b4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 28... Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 29. a4
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 29... Kf6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 30. Kc3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 30... Kf7
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 31. Bf2 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 31... Kf6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 32. Kd3
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 32... Kf7 {[%emt 0:00: 02]} 33. a5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 33... Kf6
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 34. Be3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 34... Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 35. Bd2
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 35... Kf6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 36. Bc3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 36... Kf7
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 37. Ke2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 1/2-1/2

[PlyCount "96"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.09.15"]
[White "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Black "Stockfish 4 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A00"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "48"]
[MLFlags "000100"]

{1024MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. d3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1... d5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 2. e3
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 2... e5 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 3. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 4. Be2 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 4... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 5. O-O
{[%emt 0:00:23]} 5... Bd6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 6. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6... O-O
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 7. e4 {[%emt 0:00: 01]} 7... d4 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 8. Nb1
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 8... Na5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 9. h3 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 9... c5
{[%emt 0:00:13]} 10. b3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 10... b5 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 11. a4
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 11... a6 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 12. Nbd2 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 12... Be6
{[%emt 0:00:14]} 13. axb5 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 13... axb5 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 14. Nh2
{[%emt 0:00:20]} 14... Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 15. Ng4 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 15... Nd7
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 16. Nh2 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 16... c4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 17. bxc4
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 17... bxc4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 18. Bg4 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 18... Bxg4
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 19. Qxg4 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 19... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 20. Qe2
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 20... c3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 21. Ndf3 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 21... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 22. Bg5 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 22... Nd7 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 23. Rfb1
{[%emt 0:00:11]} 23... f6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 24. Bc1 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 24... Rfb8
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 25. Ne1 {[%emt 0:00:14]} 25... Nf8 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 26. Nf1
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 26... Rxb1 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 27. Rxb1 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 27... Ra2
{[%emt 0: 00:03]} 28. Ng3 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 28... Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 29. Nf5
{[%emt 0:00:08]} 29... Bc5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 30. Qd1 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 30... Nb4
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 31. h4 {[%emt 0:00:19]} 31... Ne6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 32. h5
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 32... Bf8 {[%emt 0:00: 04]} 33. Nh4 {[%emt 0:00:28]} 33... Ra6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 34. Qg4 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 34... Na2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 35. Ra1
{[%emt 0:00:20]} 35... Qc6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 36. g3 {[%emt 0: 00:39]} 36... Qb6
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 37. Qd1 {[%emt 0:00:30]} 37... Nb4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 38. Rb1
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 38... Qa5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 39. Ng6+ {[%emt 0:00:30]} 39... Kg8
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 40. Nxf8 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 40... Nxf8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 41. Kg2
{[%emt 0:00: 35]} 41... Ne6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 42. Kg1 {[%emt 0:00:19]} 42... Na2
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 43. Kg2 {[%emt 0:00:26]} 43... Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 44. Kg1
{[%emt 0:00:15]} 44... Ra4 {[%emt 0:00: 03]} 45. Kg2 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 45... Qc8
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 46. Kg1 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 46... Qf8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 47. Kg2
{[%emt 0:00:14]} 47... Ra8 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 48. Kg1 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 48... Nd8
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 1/2-1/2

[PlyCount "63"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.09.15"]
[White "Stockfish 4 64 SSE4.2"]
[Black "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B12"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "31"]
[MLFlags "010100"]

{1024MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 1... c6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 2.
Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 2... d6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3. d4 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 3... e6
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 4. Bd3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 4... f6 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 5. Nc3
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 5... Ne7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 6. a3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 6... g6
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 7. Be3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 7... Bg7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 8. Qd2
{[%emt 0:00:08]} 8... O-O {[%emt 0:00:02]} 9. h4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 9... h5
{[%emt 0:00:17]} 10. O-O-O {[%emt 0:00:03]} 10... b5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 11. e5
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 11... f5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 12. exd6 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 12... Qxd6
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 13. Bf4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 13... Qd8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 14. Bh6
{[%emt 0: 00:03]} 14... a5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 15. Bxg7 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 15... Kxg7
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 16. Rhe1 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 16... b4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 17. Na4
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 17... Nd5 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 18. Nc5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 18... Qd6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 19. a4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 19... Rf6 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 20. Ng5
{[%emt 0:00:00]} 20... Ra7 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 21. Re5 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 21... Re7
{[%emt 0:00:13]} 22. Nce4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 22... fxe4 {[%emt 0: 00:12]} 23. Nxe4
{[%emt 0:00:00]} 23... Qd8 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 24. Nxf6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 24... Nxf6
{[%emt 0:00:12]} 25. Rg5 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 25... Qe8 {[%emt 0:00:34]} 26. Rxg6+
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 26... Qxg6 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 27. Bxg6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 27...
Kxg6 {[%emt 0: 00:01]} 28. Qg5+ {[%emt 0:00:06]} 28... Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 29.
Rd3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 29... Bb7 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 30. Rg3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 30...
Nbd7 {[%emt 0:00:27]} 31. Qg7+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 31... Ke8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 32.
Qh8+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1-0

[PlyCount "80"]
[Event "Blitz 2m+2s"]
[Site "Sofia"]
[Date "2013.09.15"]
[White "Tsvetkov, Lyudmil"]
[Black "Stockfish 4 64 SSE4.2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A07"]
[TimeControl "120+2"]
[Annotator "Tsvetkov,Lyudmil"]
[MLNrOfMoves "40"]
[MLFlags "000100"]

{1024MB, Dell XPS 4Cores} 1. d3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 1... d5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 2. c3
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 2... e5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 3. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 3... Nc6
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 4. g3 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 4... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 5. Bg2
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 5... Be7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6. O-O {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6... O-O
{[%emt 0:00:08]} 7. Bg5 {[%emt 0: 00:04]} 7... Be6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 8. e3
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 8... Qd7 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 9. Nbd2 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 9... h6
{[%emt 0:00:00]} 10. Bxf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 10... Bxf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 11. d4
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 11... e4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 12. Ne1 {[%emt 0: 00:02]} 12... Be7
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 13. f4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 13... Bg4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 14. Qc1
{[%emt 0:00:19]} 14... Nb8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 15. Nc2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 15... Qe6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 16. Qe1 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 16... Nd7 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 17. Rf2
{[%emt 0:00:09]} 17... c6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 18. Bf1 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 18... Bf5
{[%emt 0:00:06]} 19. b4 {[%emt 0:00:32]} 19... b6 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 20. a3
{[%emt 0:00:07]} 20... Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 21. Bg2 {[%emt 0:00:36]} 21... a5
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 22. Rf1 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 22... a4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 23. Qe2
{[%emt 0:00:26]} 23... b5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 24. Rfe1 {[%emt 0: 00:37]} 24... h5
{[%emt 0:00:05]} 25. h4 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 25... Bd6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 26. Nf1
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 26... Ne8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 27. Nh2 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 27... Qg6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 28. Qf2 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 28... Be7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 29. Kh1
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 29... Rd8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 30. Rg1 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 30... Nf6
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 31. Bf1 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 31... Rfe8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 32. Be2
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 32... Qh7 {[%emt 0:00: 03]} 33. Rad1 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 33... Rd6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 34. Rg2 {[%emt 0:00:16]} 34... Qg6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 35. Rgg1
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 35... Bh3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 36. Rde1 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 36... Rd7
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 37. Rd1 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 37... Bf5 {[%emt 0:00: 04]} 38. Rg2
{[%emt 0:00:03]} 38... Qh7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 39. Rgg1 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 39... Bh3
{[%emt 0:00:02]} 40. Rde1 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 40... Rdd8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]

Although playing with less time, Stockfish again produced the stuff worthwhile watching:

[d]5b1k/2q3pp/4np2/4pN1P/1n1pP3/2pP4/r1P2PP1/1RBQN1K1 w - - 0 33
What a long chain Stockfish has! (g7-c3). You need just 2 more pawns - b2 and a pawn/queen on a1 to make it the biggest possible chain of 7 pawns.

[d]1nb5/4r1k1/2pqprp1/p2nRpNp/Pp1PN2P/3B4/1PPQ1PP1/2KR4 b - - 0 22

Experimenting the ARB in this game, with no big success.
Well, obviously black is lost, but the Stockfish Ne4 is simply great. How could a human suppose that by sacrificing the knight on e4 g6 is decisively attacked?
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Still possible

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

And the conclusion might be, of course, that at very rapid and rapid time control Stockfish dominates, but scoring some points is still possible from time to time.
Considering that things might get better at longer TC, I think that not everything is lost for humans.

And you never know, a future stronger version of Stockfish might even be a more comfortable opponent :shock:
carldaman
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:13 am

Re: Still possible

Post by carldaman »

Nice job of turning 1.f3 into a credible reversed KID! Black's early d5-d4 (?!) idea was a real turkey and helped you set up the attacking pawn chain formation. My guess is that there is nothing in SF's evaluation that takes into account the direction of such chains relative to its King's position. Maybe someone can prove me wrong.

A moral victory, despite the unfortunate loss in the end. I can only hope the SF authors are taking notes and finding ways to improve on the obvious deficiencies in the engine's play. :o

Cheers,
CL
overlord
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Trinec, Czech Republic

Re: Still possible

Post by overlord »

Hello Lyudmil,

here is one of my examples how to play and beat Stockfish 4 (although only against cell phone).

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2013.09.18"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kvicala, Miroslav"]
[Black "Stockfish 4"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C02"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Qb6 6. a3 c4 7. Qe2 Nge7 8. g3 Na5 9. Nbd2 Nf5 10. Bg2 Be7 11. O-O Bd7 12. h3 O-O 13. g4 Nh4 14. Nxh4 Bxh4 15. f4 Nc6 16. Nf3 Be7 17. g5 Bd8 18. Kh1 Ne7 19. Nh2 Qb5 20. Ng4 Bb6 21. Qf2 Qa5 22. Rg1 Bc7 23. Bf3 Qb5 24. Bd1 Rfe8 25. Bc2 Kh8 26. Nf6 gxf6 27. Bxh7 fxg5 28. Rxg5 Qb3 29. Be3 f6 30. exf6 Ng6 31. Bxg6 Qd1+ 32. Rxd1 Re7 33. Qh4+ Kg8 34. Be8+ Rg7 35. Rxg7+ Kf8 36. Qh8# 1-0