Why don't strong engines enter WCCC?

[Sedat Canbaz]

H.G.Muller never tried to prove that rybka is a clone or derivative of rybka
and he respond only against your words and his claim is that you have no way to be sure that rybka is not a fruit derivative.

I also consider him to be a good programmer and I think that doing what he did with winboard is not an easier task than developing a strong chess engine.

His chess engine(Joker) is not strong but he also did not spend a lot of time in developing it and he develops engines also for other games that are not exactly chess and for chess not to be the strongest(Micromax that is maybe the only engine that has more than 1 elo per byte and has a rating near 2000 with less than 2000 bytes)

Uri

Ok...in other words, at least he is trying to show us that Rybka is a clone...
Actually HGM may be a good programmer, but he is not a professional..!!

What is opinion about his comments over me, is it true ???

Your attitude towards life broadcasting seems a pure superstition.

Whether you agree or disagree is completely immaterial, as you are not qualified to make any judgement at all.

This again should count as one of those totally uninformed 'views' that only someone completely ignorant of programming could have.

Well, so you do not only exhibit yourself as naive and ignorant,
but also as thick and conceited by proclaiming yourself an expert in areas you have not the slightest knowledge of

Now what has web-view stats to do with anything? For all we know people just get there to have a good laugh.
I am sure there are many top comedians that have websites that get more hits than yours.

Well, that sounds promising, and I am sure it will be a great releif to everyone.
Unfortunatly it has turned out that your word is worth very little in this respect,
and despite earlier promises you keep returning here to bug people with your silly misconceptions.

[hgm]

And here is the definition about 'program' meaning:
http://www.businessdictionary.com/defin ... ogram.html

As we see,
Program name has several meanings...

Sure. And opening books were not mentioned as one of them...

And I have a little wish from you,
It will be great, if you stay far away from me!

Well, that would only work if you would also stay away from me. As you can notice, I was in this thread long before you entered it. So it seems you are actively seeking me. Don't do it again!

[Sedat Canbaz]

Sure. And opening books were not mentioned as one of them...

Well, that would only work if you would also stay away from me. As you can notice, I was in this thread far before you entered it. So it seems you are actively seeking me. Don't do it again!

Sure, chess engines were not mentioned as one of them too )))

So what ? is this thread belongs to you ???
Open your eyes...and check who opened this thread, ok ?)

And If you posted before...that means it is prohibited to be here ???
You are very active poster...that means I should not be in chess forum )))

But however you miss one important thing,
You replayed me not me !!! )))

You feel a big pleasure to discus with me...thank you
But I don't feel...sorry to say that !!!

[hgm]

Sure, chess engines were not mentioned as one of them too )))

As a matter of fact they were: Chess engines are computer programs in the sense that was described in great detail there.

So what ? is this thread belongs to you ???
Open your eyes...and check who opened this thread, ok ?)

And If you posted before...that means it is prohibited to be here ???
You are very active poster...that means I should not be in chess forum )))

If you want to stay away from me, that would be a good idea. Because I certainly do not plan on leaving when you show up...

You feel a big pleasure to discus with me...thank you
But I don't feel...sorry to say that !!!

Well, let's say that when I see something written that needs to be corrected, I see it as my duty to do so.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Sure, chess engines were not mentioned as one of them too )))

As a matter of fact they were: Chess engines are computer programs in the sense that was described in great detail there.

So what ? is this thread belongs to you ???
Open your eyes...and check who opened this thread, ok ?)

And If you posted before...that means it is prohibited to be here ???
You are very active poster...that means I should not be in chess forum )))

If you want to stay away from me, that would be a good idea. Because I certainly do not plan on leaving when you show up...

You feel a big pleasure to discus with me...thank you
But I don't feel...sorry to say that !!!

Well, let's say that when I see something written that needs to be corrected, I see it as my duty to do so.

Ok...I have no much free time to spend with you !

Thanks for your understanding and I wish you all the best !

[Uri Blass]

H.G.Muller never tried to prove that rybka is a clone or derivative of rybka
and he respond only against your words and his claim is that you have no way to be sure that rybka is not a fruit derivative.

I also consider him to be a good programmer and I think that doing what he did with winboard is not an easier task than developing a strong chess engine.

His chess engine(Joker) is not strong but he also did not spend a lot of time in developing it and he develops engines also for other games that are not exactly chess and for chess not to be the strongest(Micromax that is maybe the only engine that has more than 1 elo per byte and has a rating near 2000 with less than 2000 bytes)

Uri

Ok...in other words, at least he is trying to show us that Rybka is a clone...
Actually HGM may be a good programmer, but he is not a professional..!!

What is opinion about his comments over me, is it true ???

Your attitude towards life broadcasting seems a pure superstition.

Whether you agree or disagree is completely immaterial, as you are not qualified to make any judgement at all.

This again should count as one of those totally uninformed 'views' that only someone completely ignorant of programming could have.

Well, so you do not only exhibit yourself as naive and ignorant,
but also as thick and conceited by proclaiming yourself an expert in areas you have not the slightest knowledge of

Now what has web-view stats to do with anything? For all we know people just get there to have a good laugh.
I am sure there are many top comedians that have websites that get more hits than yours.

Well, that sounds promising, and I am sure it will be a great releif to everyone.
Unfortunatly it has turned out that your word is worth very little in this respect,
and despite earlier promises you keep returning here to bug people with your silly misconceptions.

I think that it was better not to be more polite but
I also agree with the main point that is objection to your confidence about some things.

The words of H.G.Muller came as a reply to something and I think that I also share the objection of H.G.Muller but it was not important for me enough to write and respond.


For example


"Well, so you do not only exhibit yourself as naive and ignorant,
but also as thick and conceited by proclaiming yourself an expert in areas you have not the slightest knowledge of"

came as a reply to a post that included also the following part:
"Actually you are ignorant, that you can't see the reality!! "


I also share the objection of h.g.muller to things that you wrote

For example the following:

" If Rybka will be counted as a clone or derivative, then:
- Stockfish, Houdini, Gull, Komodo and plus many many engines should be counted in this group too !!"

Note that I do not claim that rybka is a derivative but I also do not claim to be sure that it is not a derivative and in case that my opinion is wrong by some definition of derivative(and it may be a grey area) and rybka is a derivative of fruit then I do not see how it means that stockfish is a derivative of something(when of course I do not include old stockfish or glaurung)

[Rebel]

On top of that, in this case, there is the issue of what ICGA is going to do with it. They are going to examine it, if they deem it necessary, for originality. They are going to be the judge of that and you have no control over the process and no means of appeal over the outcome. They'll ban you and revoke your title, maybe years after the event, if they don't like the results.

When you weigh all that against the dubious possible benefits of winning the tournament, it starts to look unattractive.

--Jon

Amen.

[Rebel]

Well, knowledgeable programmers that have investigated the matter say there is.

And a lot of knowledgeable programmers have their doubts.

It's all well documented.

[hgm]

Well, as I said elsewhere, ICGA is not the reason that Vas left computer Chess. Ippolit and Strelka are. So it isn't very relevant.

That there would be no possibility to appeal is debatable. In fact people are always invited by ICGA to appeal, after they handed in their source, and those who examine it consider it "not kosher". Of course in clear-cut cases, like participating with a virtually unmodified Ippolit, participants might not see much point in appealing: they know they are guilty as hell, and that an appeal is pointless. The point is that it never happened so far that it was a judgement call whether there was cloning or not. The source codes either completely matched, or did not match at all. If it was a judgement call a second-opinion would make sense, and I am convinved ICGA would allow that. But it makes little sense to say: "Wow, these 50,000 lines of code are identical to the last comma. Let us consult some other experts if they think that too!"!

In any legal procedings there is a 'point of no appeal', after you missed your last opportunity.

[Sedat Canbaz]

I think that it was better not to be more polite but
I also agree with the main point that is objection to your confidence about some things

Note that I do not claim that rybka is a derivative but I also do not claim to be sure that it is not a derivative and in case that my opinion is wrong by some definition of derivative(and it may be a grey area) and rybka is a derivative of fruit then I do not see how it means that stockfish is a derivative of something(when of course I do not include old stockfish or glaurung)

Thanks for your replay!

Ok...it's enough to talk about HGM, I think I gave him good lessons ))

To be honest,
I am already accustomed...almost all of my chess activity are trying to be underestimated or attacked

But as we see, they can't...probably due to: the good always wins !! ))

But however,
I forgive all of them...everybody can make mistakes...
And If I have any mistakes: I say SORRY to all

And when I stated, If Rybka will be counted as clone,
I was not meaning especially only Stockfish, more than 80%-90% of the rest engines should be counted in that group too !!!
Simply because it's very very hard to find 100% original work...almost all engines are bloody to each other...
We should be very nave to if we can not see the reality...
Many many chess engines contain same opening code, just is needed the engines top be tested without books
Even I don't want to talk about similarities, ponder hits etc...

And once more I say:
Stockfish, Rybka, Komodo, Houdini etc...are not 100% original, but they belong to the most original engines!
Those mentioned engines include better original ideas than all
That's why the above top engines were rated as 'number one' in many rating list...!!

That's all from me and hope helps!


Best,
Sedat