computerchess on apple

[hgm]

As this thread is likely to attract many Mac users, I would like to pose the following question here:

How are engines typically installed on OS X? Are their components (executable, opening book, ini file, logos, README or manual page) distributed over many different standard places, as in Linux (e.g. executable to /usr/games/*, book to /usr/share/games/<packagename>/*), or are they all put together in the same directory as is typical on Windows?

Are there things comparable to Debian packages for OS X, in which the engines are distributed, and from which they can be installed by a dedicated package manager? Or do they come with excutable installers that you have to run first, like many Windows programs? Or are they mostly just zip (or similar) archives that you unzip in a folder of your choice?

If we ever want to reach a situation where GUIs (in particular XBoard) should be able to automatically detect which engines are installed, and add them with the proper support options to the user's engine list, it would be important that we achieve some standardization here. For Linux I proposed a 'plugin-spec' standard, where all engine packages would include a file that (on install of the package) goes to a standard place (/usr/share/games/plugins/<protocol>/*.eng), so that GUIs supporting <protocol> (=xboard, uci, ...) just would have to scan that directory to see which engines are present. Would that be a viable approach on OS X as well? If so, what would be the proper place for the plugin-spec files there? If not, what else could we do?

[Richard Allbert]

Hi HG

I install the engines into their own folders in /documents, all files in one place. Basically you can put them where you want.

However, when you have an official app then there are number of paths where the preferences are saved - either in the app package itself (inside the applications folder) or various directories used for configuration. When I get home from work later, I'll post them.



Ciao

Richard

[mclane]

BTW Lion is way old. I'd upgrade to Mavericks because the next release is due out pretty soon and they might require Mavericks before you upgrade.

Unfortunately, some of the earlier Mac Mini models with a Core 2 Duo do not support any version of Mac OS/X beyond 10.7 Lion.

See: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ... cmini.html

I have no idea how to update and IF it is possible to upgrade to mavericks.

I thought apple is Apple but it seems 10.7.5 is kind of windows XP while
Mavericks is windows 8.1 ???

[Richard Allbert]

Following on.

Apps install in the /Users/username/Applications folder, however they are self contained and can be moved about as you wish.

In addition to this, at the root (HDisk) you have /usr/bin, /share, /etc where there are some settings.

In the specific username directory, /Users/username there is a folder called Library. There is also a Library folder at the root.

This often contains an application specific folder (eg Library/Eclipse) which holds settings. Also in the library folder is a Preferences folder, and application specific settings are stored here as well - I think these are related to the preferences dialog you see on most mac apps. Also in library there is an Application Support folder with yet more settings.

So, you have

/Users/Username/Library/Preferences
/Users/Username/Library/Application Support
/Users/Username/Library/

also

/Users/Username/.config
/Users/Username/.appname

/Library/ .. (as above)
/etc

Some applications hae settings spread across many of these path - Itunes for example.

Eclipse is another example, as I had to dig them all out when uninstalling it.

BUT it is possible simply to have the preferences contained in you app package. There is no obligation to use the various paths shown above. This I know from my own apps, and is what I do.

Hope that helps.

Richard

[JoshPettus]

Personally I'd compare 10.6 to XP

Actually if your computer can support 10.7 lion, it can support 10.9 and I believe the upcoming 10.10.

Those first generation intel macs that only support 32 bit couldn't use 10.7 which is 64bit only. (10.7 removed a lot of backwards compatibility, including Rossetta which ran PPC compiled OSX binaries)

This is why I have been trying to maintain 10.6 support in xboard.app. but it is becoming harder. As I update my machine to the latest, xcode is further removing 10.6 from the internal libraries, which macports compiles against. And more and more ports wont compile 10.6 anymore on my machine. I may be forced to limit to 10.7.

Anyway, if you have 10.7 you can upgrade to 10.9 mavericks via the app store, which is free.

------

@Richard Allbert,

The /etc, /usr, and /bin folders are internal folders for System stuff only. I would not install your own stuff in there, unless you know what you are doing. You can easily render your OS unbootable if you replace or throw away the wrong file! This is why macports and fink installs their software in one of their predefined prefixes. Software is typically installed in the universal /Applications folder or ~/Applications if you really want to keep it from the other users. Apps store their settings in ~/Library/Preferences or ~/Library/Application\ Support/AppName. I'm noticing more and more software throwing stuff in the homefolder in a hidden folder, but I don't believe this encouraged.

[CositasBuenas]

Hi, you should have a look at Mac Chess Explorer:

http://www.hiarcs.com/mac-chess-explorer.htm

Michael

[JoshPettus]

Hi, you should have a look at Mac Chess Explorer:

http://www.hiarcs.com/mac-chess-explorer.htm

Michael

60$ is a little much for me, and xboard has all I need. And I believe, stockfish currently blasts Hiarcs out of the water.

[bob]

BTW Lion is way old. I'd upgrade to Mavericks because the next release is due out pretty soon and they might require Mavericks before you upgrade.

Unfortunately, some of the earlier Mac Mini models with a Core 2 Duo do not support any version of Mac OS/X beyond 10.7 Lion.

See: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ... cmini.html

I have no idea how to update and IF it is possible to upgrade to mavericks.

I thought apple is Apple but it seems 10.7.5 is kind of windows XP while
Mavericks is windows 8.1 ???

May you be served nothing but rotten mushrooms for the rest of your natural life. The very idea of mentioning windows and unix (os x is pure unix) in the same sentence is a sacrilegious act...

[bob]

As this thread is likely to attract many Mac users, I would like to pose the following question here:

How are engines typically installed on OS X? Are their components (executable, opening book, ini file, logos, README or manual page) distributed over many different standard places, as in Linux (e.g. executable to /usr/games/*, book to /usr/share/games/<packagename>/*), or are they all put together in the same directory as is typical on Windows?

Are there things comparable to Debian packages for OS X, in which the engines are distributed, and from which they can be installed by a dedicated package manager? Or do they come with excutable installers that you have to run first, like many Windows programs? Or are they mostly just zip (or similar) archives that you unzip in a folder of your choice?

If we ever want to reach a situation where GUIs (in particular XBoard) should be able to automatically detect which engines are installed, and add them with the proper support options to the user's engine list, it would be important that we achieve some standardization here. For Linux I proposed a 'plugin-spec' standard, where all engine packages would include a file that (on install of the package) goes to a standard place (/usr/share/games/plugins/<protocol>/*.eng), so that GUIs supporting <protocol> (=xboard, uci, ...) just would have to scan that directory to see which engines are present. Would that be a viable approach on OS X as well? If so, what would be the proper place for the plugin-spec files there? If not, what else could we do?

I create a separate directory whether it be on os x or linux. Too many programs use the same names. IE some use log.00n just like crafty which produces corrupted log files if you are interested in them. Ditto for books and such.

I find it simpler to have a sub-directory for each different program. Only thing I don't do is use a standard location for these. In general I will put sub-directories together somewhere, but not always in the same place (i.e. in my home directory). I sometimes have to modify a chess engine for cluster testing (to change the timing resolution to ms rather than 10ms or whatever) but I don't want to break them for normal xboard matches, so for my cluster testing I have a ~hyatt/cluster directory that contains my cluster-testing software plus directories for each engine I include...

[bob]

Hi HG

I install the engines into their own folders in /documents, all files in one place. Basically you can put them where you want.

However, when you have an official app then there are number of paths where the preferences are saved - either in the app package itself (inside the applications folder) or various directories used for configuration. When I get home from work later, I'll post them.



Ciao

Richard

trying to wrap my head around the concept that a chess engine is a document. Shades of Micro$oft...