Who will win the Duel: Crafty or Stockfish?

[Uri Blass]

Uri, Adam etc...

You are missing one important point:
-Crafty especially in the beginning of the game, takes to think approx. 2-3 minutes per move
Where Stockfish thinks 3-5 seconds per move

In other words:

Crafty thinks average 150 seconds per move

Where Stockfish thinks average 5 seconds per move

Do you know what this means ??? 30 times more....!!!

Simply, Stockfish is an amazing engine )!

Opening is only part of the game
Later it is clearly less than 30:1 and I think that it is equivalent to 25:1 in every move.

[Uri Blass]

Adam,


With respect to Andreas, Kai etc...
I had serious testings (about doubling) I run such testings a long time before...what about you, do you have such data ?)

And I am not in chess since yesterday, more than 35 years in chess, and nearly 20 years in computer chess
So I have a little bit experience...and that experience helps me in most cases ))

About the current issue, see here please:
http://i.hizliresim.com/8mv1GW.gif

Crafty 423 kns = 2410 Elo
Crafty 11796 kns = 2813 Elo

423 kns
846 kns
1692 kns
3384 kns
6768 kns
13536 kns


Conclusion:
Even less than 5 times doublings = 400 Elo
That means Crafty gains min 80 Elo per doubling

Another proof:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/?page_id=1020

6 Deep Rybka 4.1 x64 6c 3358 Elo
15 Deep Rybka 4.1 x64 4c 3293 Elo

i7 980X is approx. 1.66 faster than i7 920
And if with 1.66 we get approx. 60 Elo that means in case of doubling minimum will be 80 Elo


Hopes helps....


If you need more help...just let me know...

Doubling worth more at fast time control so Crafty may gain more than 80 elo for doubling the speed when you test at 3+2 and change slow hardware to fast hardware but it does not mean it continue to earn 80 elo from doubling when you change 3+2 to slower time control with the same fast hardware.

[Sedat Canbaz]

SCCT: Stockfish wins the Duel ! Congratulations to Mr. Marco Costalba!!



.



.
2nd game: Draw


.
[pgn][Event "SCCT: Crafty 60m+15s vs Stockfish 3m+2s"]
[Site "Antalya/Turkey"]
[Date "2014.10.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Crafty 24.1 x64"]
[Black "Stockfish 151014 x64"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C50"]
[Annotator "Crafty 24.1"]
[PlyCount "164"]
[EventDate "2014.??.??"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]

{512MB, empty.ctg, pc12} 1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} e5 {
[%eval 19,19] [%emt 0:00:00]} 2. Nf3 {[%emt 0:02:27]} Nc6 {
[%eval 18,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} 3. Nc3 {(Bb5) [%emt 0:01:49]} Nf6 {
[%eval 11,21] [%emt 0:00:07]} 4. Bc4 {(Bb5) [%emt 0:03:04]} Bc5 {
[%eval 19,19] [%emt 0:00:06]} 5. d3 {(0-0) [%emt 0:03:29]} h6 {
auto adjud. [%eval 10,22] [%emt 0:00:07]} 6. O-O {[%emt 0:00:00]} d6 {
[%eval 9,18] [%emt 0:00:04]} 7. Na4 {(a3) [%emt 0:01:36]} Bb6 {
[%eval 14,22] [%emt 0:00:07]} 8. a3 {(c3) [%emt 0:02:28]} Qe7 {
[%eval 5,23] [%emt 0:00:12]} 9. c3 {(Bd2) [%emt 0:00:00]} Be6 {
[%eval 4,22] [%emt 0:00:10]} 10. Bb5 {(Bxe6) [%emt 0:01:20]} O-O {
[%eval 15,21] [%emt 0:00:05]} 11. Re1 {(Nxb6) [%emt 0:00:54]} Na5 {
[%eval 2,22] [%emt 0:00:05]} 12. Nxb6 {[%emt 0:01:17]} Bb3 {
[%eval 11,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} 13. Qe2 {[%emt 0:01:08]} axb6 {
[%eval 13,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} 14. d4 {[%emt 0:00:55]} c6 {
[%eval 10,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} 15. Bd3 {[%emt 0:01:01]} b5 {
[%eval 8,30] [%emt 0:00:00]} 16. Nh4 {(Be3) [%emt 0:01:21]} Be6 {
[%eval 11,19] [%emt 0:00:05]} 17. Bc2 {[%emt 0:01:06]} Nxe4 {
[%eval 3,23] [%emt 0:00:00]} 18. g3 {[%emt 0:02:46]} Nf6 {
[%eval -5,32] [%emt 0:00:00]} 19. dxe5 {[%emt 0:01:17]} dxe5 {
[%eval -1,33] [%emt 0:00:00]} 20. Qxe5 {[%emt 0:00:45]} Rfe8 {
[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} 21. Bxh6 {[%emt 0:00:56]} gxh6 {
[%eval 0,34] [%emt 0:00:00]} 22. Qf4 {[%emt 0:00:49]} Ng4 {
[%eval 0,35] [%emt 0:00:05]} 23. h3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Qg5 {
[%eval 0,34] [%emt 0:00:00]} 24. hxg4 {[%emt 0:00:49]} Qxf4 {
[%eval 0,33] [%emt 0:00:00]} 25. gxf4 {[%emt 0:01:18]} Bxg4 {
[%eval 0,34] [%emt 0:00:05]} 26. f3 {(Rxe8+) [%emt 0:00:22]} Be6 {
[%eval -26,22] [%emt 0:00:00]} 27. a4 {[%emt 0:00:57]} bxa4 {
[%eval 0,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} 28. Rxa4 {[%emt 0:00:54]} Nc4 {
[%eval 0,32] [%emt 0:00:00]} 29. Rxe6 {[%emt 0:00:52]} fxe6 {
[%eval 0,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 30. Rxc4 {[%emt 0:00:43]} Red8 {
[%eval 0,37] [%emt 0:00:00]} 31. Rd4 {[%emt 0:00:48]} Rxd4 {
[%eval 0,36] [%emt 0:00:00]} 32. cxd4 {[%emt 0:00:34]} Ra1+ {
[%eval 0,36] [%emt 0:00:00]} 33. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Ra2 {
[%eval 0,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 34. Be4 {[%emt 0:00:42]} Rxb2+ {
[%eval -5,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 35. Kg3 {(Ke3) [%emt 0:01:04]} Kf7 {
[%eval -6,26] [%emt 0:00:08]} 36. f5 {[%emt 0:02:34]} b5 {
[%eval -12,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 37. Bxc6 {[%emt 0:01:03]} b4 {
[%eval -12,36] [%emt 0:00:00]} 38. Bd7 {(Kf4) [%emt 0:02:24]} Kf6 {
[%eval -27,29] [%emt 0:00:11]} 39. fxe6 {(Bxe6) [%emt 0:01:14]} Re2 {
[%eval -27,26] [%emt 0:00:09]} 40. Ba4 {(Bb5) [%emt 0:01:01]} Rxe6 {
[%eval -20,28] [%emt 0:00:10]} 41. Kf4 {(d5) [%emt 0:00:41]} Ra6 {
[%eval -63,28] [%emt 0:00:08]} 42. Bc2 {[%emt 0:00:24]} Ra2 {
[%eval -64,32] [%emt 0:00:02]} 43. Be4 {[%emt 0:00:40]} b3 {
[%eval -77,34] [%emt 0:00:00]} 44. Nf5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Re2 {
[%eval -77,34] [%emt 0:00:00]} 45. Ne3 {[%emt 0:00:54]} b2 {
[%eval -77,33] [%emt 0:00:00]} 46. Nd5+ {(Ng4+) [%emt 0:00:16]} Kf7 {
[%eval -77,31] [%emt 0:00:05]} 47. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:42]} Re1 {
[%eval -77,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 48. d5 {(Kf5) [%emt 0:03:08]} Kf6 {
[%eval -77,30] [%emt 0:00:05]} 49. Bf5 {[%emt 0:04:39]} Rc1 {
[%eval -94,37] [%emt 0:00:00]} 50. Ne4+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} Kf7 {
[%eval -79,34] [%emt 0:00:00]} 51. Nd2 {[%emt 0:00:37]} Rd1 {
[%eval -79,34] [%emt 0:00:00]} 52. Ke3 {[%emt 0:00:55]} h5 {
[%eval -72,36] [%emt 0:00:00]} 53. Ke2 {(Be4) [%emt 0:00:36]} Rg1 {
[%eval -72,32] [%emt 0:00:07]} 54. Be4 {(Kf2) [%emt 0:03:45]} Kf6 {
[%eval -60,30] [%emt 0:00:08]} 55. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Rd1 {
[%eval -66,37] [%emt 0:00:09]} 56. Nb1 {[%emt 0:00:38]} Rc1 {
[%eval -60,41] [%emt 0:00:00]} 57. Kg3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Kg5 {
[%eval -60,41] [%emt 0:00:05]} 58. Na3 {(Nd2) [%emt 0:00:02]} Rd1 {
[%eval -60,40] [%emt 0:00:05]} 59. Nb1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Rg1+ {
[%eval -60,38] [%emt 0:00:38]} 60. Kf2 {[%emt 0:00:33]} Rc1 {
[%eval -60,38] [%emt 0:00:00]} 61. Kg3 {(Nd2) [%emt 0:00:33]} h4+ {
[%eval -38,31] [%emt 0:00:33]} 62. Kg2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} Rc4 {
[%eval -24,32] [%emt 0:00:09]} 63. Kh3 {(Nd2) [%emt 0:00:39]} Ra4 {
[%eval -24,35] [%emt 0:00:03]} 64. Kg2 {(Nc3) [%emt 0:00:41]} Rb4 {
[%eval -24,35] [%emt 0:00:03]} 65. Kh3 {(Nd2) [%emt 0:00:38]} Rc4 {
[%eval -24,35] [%emt 0:00:03]} 66. Bd3 {(Kg2) [%emt 0:00:46]} Rd4 {
[%eval -24,44] [%emt 0:00:21]} 67. Be4 {[%emt 0:00:35]} Kh5 {
[%eval -24,43] [%emt 0:00:00]} 68. Kg2 {[%emt 0:00:30]} Kh6 {
[%eval -24,45] [%emt 0:00:00]} 69. Kf2 {(Kh3) [%emt 0:00:33]} Rc4 {
[%eval -24,0] [%emt 0:00:04]} 70. Nd2 {[%emt 0:00:30]} Rb4 {
[%eval -24,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 71. d6 {(Kg2) [%emt 0:00:22]} Kg5 {
[%eval -24,26] [%emt 0:00:04]} 72. Ke3 {[%emt 0:00:44]} Kf6 {
[%eval -18,35] [%emt 0:00:00]} 73. d7 {[%emt 0:00:33]} Rb8 {
[%eval -18,37] [%emt 0:00:00]} 74. Kf4 {[%emt 0:00:30]} Rg8 {
[%eval -18,38] [%emt 0:00:00]} 75. Nc4 {[%emt 0:00:59]} Ke7 {
[%eval -18,40] [%emt 0:00:00]} 76. Nxb2 {[%emt 0:00:26]} h3 {
[%eval -18,42] [%emt 0:00:00]} 77. Nd1 {(Nd3) [%emt 0:00:00]} Rg2 {
[%eval -18,40] [%emt 0:00:03]} 78. Nf2 {[%emt 0:00:29]} Rxf2 {
[%eval -18,43] [%emt 0:00:00]} 79. Kg3 {[%emt 0:00:18]} h2 {
[%eval -18,42] [%emt 0:00:00]} 80. f4 {[%emt 0:00:18]} Rf1 {
[%eval -18,39] [%emt 0:00:00]} 81. Kxh2 {[%emt 0:00:18]} Rxf4 {
[%eval -18,41] [%emt 0:00:00]} 82. Bc6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Rb4 {
[%eval -18,42] [%emt 0:00:00]} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]


More Details:
I should admit that Crafty managed to make draw even against Stockfish !
Its is not so easy as it looks to make draw especially against Stockfish
So my congratulations to Mr. Robert Hyatt too

Once more I'd like to point out,

Especially for the first game I can confirm,
Almost all Crafty's moves were not recognized by Stockfish
I mean Stockfish's pondering did not help much...

As far as I know,
Pondering helps a lot in case of recognizing the opponents played moves

Note also that Stockfish used to think average 3-5 seconds per move,
Where its opponent (Crafty) used to think average 2-3 minutes per move
This is really very important...!!!

Otherwise...if the the most played moves were recognized...
Then the 1st game would not be ended in 24 moves, right ?))

A little note:
This duel is not official, it is just a fun match!
Please don't take too seriously the current played games
My used idea is not perfect, but it is a special one, not for everyone )!


Thanks a lot for your interest, votes, comments...


Best,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

Opening is only part of the game

I am not the reason about used openings

Please look closely at the conditions:
Opening Book OFF

That means: both participants are played without books

[Sedat Canbaz]

Doubling worth more at fast time control so Crafty may gain more than 80 elo for doubling the speed when you test at 3+2 and change slow hardware to fast hardware but it does not mean it continue to earn 80 elo from doubling when you change 3+2 to slower time control with the same fast hardware.

Uri Uri Uri

Please no more over this issue, the game is over ok ?))

Once more I will point out, but this last my statements over this issue

Crafty used to think average 2-3 minutes
Stockfish used to think average 3-5 seconds

And the 1st game is ended in 24 moves in favor for that engine,
which is used to think average 3-5 seconds per move

This is really very important...!

If you can not see it...this not my problem !!))


Just saying....

[Uri Blass]

Opening is only part of the game

I am not the reason about used openings

Please look closely at the conditions:
Opening Book OFF

That means: both participants are played without books

When I wrote opening I did not mean opening book but simply the first moves that the engines calculated.

The first game was short so it is possible that the practical time advantage of Crafty in game 1 was close to 30:1 but you do not know it in advance and the time advantage of Crafty in game 2 that was longer was clearly less than 30:1 so the average time advantage that Crafty has in the match is smaller than 30:1

[Sedat Canbaz]

I found my current new idea very interesting...

So this time...the match is with Ponder OFF
And I set Perfect 2015 book for both players

Crafty = 30 min +1 sec
Stockfish = 1 min + 1 sec

Let's see who will be the winner this time


And here is the current position:

[Sedat Canbaz]

New Update

Note: I run by myself manually the current match, not in Auto232 mode...

Due to as I stated before,
Auto232 mode does not work properly on this machine

A question to experts:
Any opinions ? about my used current conditions ???
Is there is something wrong ?? ))


And here is the latest position,
It looks like Stockfish will win this game too


.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Stockfish wins in 46 moves...impressive !!!


[pgn][Event "Ponder OFF: Stockfish 1m+1s vs Crafty 30m+1s "]
[Site "Antalya/Turkey"]
[Date "2014.10.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish 151014 x64"]
[Black "Crafty 24.1 x64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[Annotator "Crafty 24.1"]
[PlyCount "91"]
[TimeControl "60+1"]

{512MB, Perfect2015.ctg, pc12} 1. d4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} d5 {[%emt 0:
00:06]} 2. c4 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 3. Nf3 {[%eval
0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} c6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 4. Qc2 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} e6
{[%emt 0:00:04]} 5. e3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Nbd7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 6.
Nc3 {[%eval 0,0] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bd6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 7. Be2 {[%eval 0,0]
[%emt 0:00:00]} Qe7 {[%emt 0:01:25]} 8. O-O {[%eval 35,16] [%emt 0:00:02]} O-O
{[%emt 0:00:53]} 9. b3 {[%eval 12,19] [%emt 0:00:08]} b6 {[%emt 0:00:59]} 10.
Bb2 {[%eval 12,19] [%emt 0:00:01]} Bb7 {[%emt 0:00:49]} 11. Rac1 {[%eval 11,19]
[%emt 0:00:01]} Rac8 {[%emt 0:00:45]} 12. Rfd1 {[%eval 11,17] [%emt 0:00:01]}
a6 {[%emt 0:00:51]} 13. g3 {[%eval 13,18] [%emt 0:00:09]} Rfd8 {[%emt 0:11:55]}
14. Bf1 {[%eval 17,17] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rc7 {[%emt 0:01:34]} 15. Bg2 {[%eval 18,
17] [%emt 0:00:02]} Re8 {[%emt 0:01:57]} 16. e4 {[%eval 50,18] [%emt 0:00:03]}
dxe4 {[%emt 0:00:50]} 17. Nxe4 {[%eval 46,20] [%emt 0:00:02]} Nxe4 {[%emt 0:01:
27]} 18. Qxe4 {[%eval 52,21] [%emt 0:00:01]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:01:13]} 19. Qc2 {
[%eval 48,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} Ba3 {[%emt 0:01:14]} 20. Ne5 {[%eval 64,22]
[%emt 0:00:04]} Bxb2 {[%emt 0:00:49]} 21. Qxb2 {[%eval 62,23] [%emt 0:00:01]}
Nd7 {[%emt 0:01:04]} 22. c5 {[%eval 67,20] [%emt 0:00:02]} b5 {[%emt 0:00:33]}
23. Bf3 {[%eval 63,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} Rd8 {[%emt 0:01:16]} 24. Kg2 {[%eval 60,
19] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rcc8 {[%emt 0:02:37]} 25. b4 {[%eval 67,19] [%emt 0:00:06]}
Nf6 {[%emt 0:01:00]} 26. a4 {[%eval 63,21] [%emt 0:00:02]} bxa4 {[%emt 0:00:05]
} 27. Ra1 {[%eval 92,18] [%emt 0:00:02]} Nd5 {[%emt 0:01:03]} 28. Rxa4 {[%eval
95,20] [%emt 0:00:06]} Qg5 {[%emt 0:00:25]} 29. Nc4 {[%eval 108,19] [%emt 0:00:
01]} Rc7 {[%emt 0:00:34]} 30. Nd6 {[%eval 121,16] [%emt 0:00:01]} Rxd6 {[%emt
0:00:27]} 31. cxd6 {[%eval 136,20] [%emt 0:00:02]} Rd7 {[%emt 0:00:23]} 32. h4
{[%eval 148,21] [%emt 0:00:03]} Qd8 {[%emt 0:00:22]} 33. Bxd5 {[%eval 200,22]
[%emt 0:00:02]} exd5 {[%emt 0:00:21]} 34. Ra3 {[%eval 206,25] [%emt 0:00:03]}
Rxd6 {[%emt 0:00:25]} 35. Re3 {[%eval 206,26] [%emt 0:00:01]} Re6 {[%emt 0:00:
21]} 36. Rxe6 {[%eval 206,25] [%emt 0:00:01]} fxe6 {[%emt 0:00:26]} 37. Qe2 {
[%eval 212,24] [%emt 0:00:01]} Bc8 {[%emt 0:00:39]} 38. Qe5 {[%eval 236,24]
[%emt 0:00:05]} Bd7 {[%emt 0:10:19]} 39. Ra1 {[%eval 282,22] [%emt 0:00:01]}
Qb6 {[%emt 0:00:42]} 40. Qd6 {[%eval 318,23] [%emt 0:00:01]} Qb7 {[%emt 0:00:
21]} 41. Ra3 {[%eval 325,24] [%emt 0:00:01]} Qc8 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 42. b5 {
[%eval 405,22] [%emt 0:00:01]} cxb5 {[%emt 0:00:20]} 43. Rxa6 {[%eval 454,22]
[%emt 0:00:01]} Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:17]} 44. Ra7 {[%eval 591,23] [%emt 0:00:02]}
Ke8 {[%emt 0:00:24]} 45. Qe5 {[%eval 598,24] [%emt 0:00:01]} Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:
32]} 46. Rc7 {[%eval 614,24] [%emt 0:00:01]} 1-0[/pgn]

[Sedat Canbaz]

4th game: It looks like Crafty is in danger...

Let's see what will the final score of this exciting game...


.