ICGA's 2015 World Computer Chess Championship/Events

[Michel]

There was not an issue of unexplained experimental results ?!?!?

No experiments were necessary in this case since it was shown that classical theory predicted that a black body would radiate with infinite power which is clearly unphysical. But as I said this point is actually unimportant.

You still haven't explained why you call me a cleric. All my posts here have been rational, in contrast to yours which were emotionally charged.

[mcostalba]

You still haven't explained why you call me a cleric. All my posts here have been rational, in contrast to yours which were emotionally charged.

You didn't see the link of the video I posted, right?

Also all his points were rational, instead the guy that upoladed the video on you tube was emotionally charged.....

[Michel]

You didn't see the link of the video I posted, right?

Also all his points were rational, instead the guy that upoladed the video on you tube was emotionally charged..... Smile

I did not watch the video since I did not see how it was relevant.

Surely you are capable of explaining in plain English words why you call me a cleric.

[mcostalba]

I did not watch the video since I did not see how it was relevant.

Great!!!! I was expecting for this!

It reminds me when Galileo announced that he had discovered mountains on the Moon in 1610, he offered Doctors of the time the chance to observe the evidence through a telescope but they refused even to look through the telescope and insisted that Aristotle had definitely proved the Moon could only be a perfect sphere.

Everything comes together Amazing !

Of course I am not Galileo and I even don't dare to look at him, but you are an amazing and live synthesis of all the anti-science argumentations and behaviours of the last 1000 years! It is marvellous that at the dawn of 2015 a single man sports such full collection or retrograde, and dogmatic positions.

BTW, have I answered now to your question on why I call you a cleric?

[Michel]

Great!!!! I was expecting for this!

It reminds me when Galileo announced that he had discovered mountains on the Moon in 1610, he offered Doctors of the time the chance to observe the evidence through a telescope but they refused even to look through the telescope and insisted that Aristotle had definitely proved the Moon could only be a perfect sphere.

Everything comes together Smile Amazing !

Of course I am not Galileo and I even don't dare to look at him, but you are an amazing and live synthesis of all the anti-science argumentations and behaviours of the last 1000 years! It is marvellous that at the dawn of 2015 a single man sports such full collection or retrograde, and dogmatic positions.

BTW, have I answered now to your question on why I call you a cleric?

No not at all. What you wrote is even completely irrelevant. Have I ever advocated ignoring scientific evidence in my posts?

So please try again. Why do you call me a cleric?

[APassionForCriminalJustic]

Rather the other way around. SF will not participate in this tournament, because it's a big farce. Everything about this ICGA tournament is wrong:
* one game elimination = statistically meaningless results
* we would have to fly to Leiden with our hardware + hotel for a week, at our own expense. all that for what? to prove that SF can beat the shit out of all these patzer like Pandix, Crafty, Nightmare, Hiarcs, Junior etc.
* different hardware and different book, makes comparisons meaningless.

SF team should never lower themselves to participate in any ICGA event, IMO. ICGA is a dying dinosaur. Live and let die.

The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to.

Your post wouldn't past any "fishtest". You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
In ICGA tournaments your hardware setup can reside anywhere on the planet, as long as you are able to connect to it from the tournament hall. Hint: they do provide internet connection. You don't have to bring your hardware there.
Somone obviously still would have to fly over to Leiden to operate Stockfish. I have no clue about actual current regulations but amateur entries usually used to get some financial ICGA support when it is about this.
The title "world championship" is a lable that depends on the credibility ( of the public) connected with the event. It is difficult to beat the fact that FIDE recognizes ICGA events when it is about this.
The philosophy behind these events is that whatever you can come up with and that abides by the tournament rules is valid. Why do you consider hardware and book meaningless then? Especially as the Stockfish guys flamed Crafty for not scaling too well on 16+ cores just a few days ago? The ability to use big hardware to your advantage is part of the challenge.
Book is similar. I wouldn't know how to provide Stockfish with a decent opening book myself, as I'd see a decent chance to weaken it with any human intervention, but if someone could come up with an opening book that helps its performance, that's kind of creative work too and part of the silicon chess entity participating.
Everyone using the same book is clearly not the only kind of fair setup that can be conceived.
The setup of TCEC is just as arbitrary as that of an ICGA event ( I won't go into this now).
But it is clearly evident from the past that e.g. underestimating Junior in an ICGA event is clearly not that great an idea, even when you are way ahead of it in some rating list with your engine. To use an analogy from the human chessworld: Kasparov should have beaten Kramnik like a stepchild in 2000 rating-wise, yet it was not to be.

Deep Junior is no champion; Stockfish would absolutely destroy that engine (heck there are vast multitude of engines that would slap it around). We are talking about differences upwards of 300 Elo when comparisons between it and Stockfish, Komodo or Houdini are made. I really think that there is little to fear of Deep Junior. TCEC has revealed this numerous times. Hence, speaking about Stockfish and Deep Junior in the same paragraph is absurd. If everyone here wants to talk about deception go look on the HIARCS website and see what is said about Deep Junior. TCEC is a far more legitimate tournament when determining or attempting to determine today's strongest computer chess engine. Even Hyatt has ADMITTED this to me. Get your facts straight there. The TCEC isn't some conference tournament; it last upwards of four months. TCEC is the true world championship; wake the heck up from denial man. Use your brain. These ridiculous in-denial attitude or tendencies are hilarious and annoying. And the who the heck cares about what FIDE recognizes; computer chess is NOT something they care about.

[Michel]

Of course I am not Galileo and I even don't dare to look at him, but you are an amazing and live synthesis of all the anti-science argumentations and behaviours of the last 1000 years! It is marvellous that at the dawn of 2015 a single man sports such full collection or retrograde, and dogmatic positions.

Rereading this paragraph I started to wonder. Can you actually state a single of such "retrograde" or "dogmatic" positions I am supposed to hold?

It shouldn't be hard since apparently I hold many such positions.

[bob]

Rather the other way around. SF will not participate in this tournament, because it's a big farce. Everything about this ICGA tournament is wrong:
* one game elimination = statistically meaningless results
* we would have to fly to Leiden with our hardware + hotel for a week, at our own expense. all that for what? to prove that SF can beat the shit out of all these patzer like Pandix, Crafty, Nightmare, Hiarcs, Junior etc.
* different hardware and different book, makes comparisons meaningless.

SF team should never lower themselves to participate in any ICGA event, IMO. ICGA is a dying dinosaur. Live and let die.

The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to.

What was the last event YOU went to? Do you know what an attended tournament is like?

Your comments are pure rubbish.

I do not see why his comments are rubbish. He didn't exactly say things necessarily in a friendly manner - but you guys should consider changing the title of this "2015 World Computer Chess Championship" because it clearly is not. It is a tournament where authors get together and discuss things; is that not a major focal point of this tournament? Why on earth do you guys seriously have a title like this when your tournament will not actually show who the REAL engine champion is? I mean look at the engine participants. They are far from top-tier status to say the least. I am willing to bet that Rybka 4.1 would win that tournament unless Komodo participates.

Seriously, the authors of both HIARCS and Deep Junior should stop proclaiming their engines as champions (they are both amateurs compared to the best); they are lying right through their thick teeth.

In with the new, out with the old.

TCEC RULES! ****** Long live the real World Computer Chess Championship ******

It is what it is. It has been the WCCC since 1974. If Stockfish wants to participate, they can enter. If they choose to not enter, it is still the WCCC. The same thing happened to the human WCC years ago with Kasparov splitting off with a splinter group. But the FIDE WCC was still the most respected title.

TCEC is not a tournament. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. And it is a more accurate measurement. But by the same token, FIDE could stop the WCC matches completely and just call the #1 rated player the world champion. That is more accurate than a single match. But there is something to be said for a traditional match / tournament.

[bob]

Read below so you may know your elders and the organization that are responsible for our hobby.

They are responsible for nothing, _we_ are responsible of our hobby.

You cannot live in a (distant) past, you have to live the present and aim toward the future.

Calling the winner of this tournament "world champion" has been a blatant and conscious lie for any and all of the last years. Not accepting this fact stops any possibility of furthering discussion, because it is like to state that earth is flat and does not spin. Who asserts this (few days ago there was some cleric from saudi that stated this on youtube!) cannot be discussed with: if I go to discuss with the cleric that earth is not flat I would be punished, whipped and put in jail...and of course he will continue to state that earth is flat.

...there are many clerics here on talkchess,and ICGA is their temple, so sorry but no need to looking for whipping...

I guess all the old FIDE WC players are also a giant fraud?

Whatever the reason for your bitterness, the ICGA exists, it publishes a journal, it hosts a conference where people get together to discuss new ideas. 99% of what YOU are doing was not discovered by YOU. Those that came before you were important.

[vittyvirus]

Rather the other way around. SF will not participate in this tournament, because it's a big farce. Everything about this ICGA tournament is wrong:
* one game elimination = statistically meaningless results
* we would have to fly to Leiden with our hardware + hotel for a week, at our own expense. all that for what? to prove that SF can beat the shit out of all these patzer like Pandix, Crafty, Nightmare, Hiarcs, Junior etc.
* different hardware and different book, makes comparisons meaningless.

SF team should never lower themselves to participate in any ICGA event, IMO. ICGA is a dying dinosaur. Live and let die.

The only world championship is TCEC, and that's what we look forward to.

Your post wouldn't past any "fishtest". You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
In ICGA tournaments your hardware setup can reside anywhere on the planet, as long as you are able to connect to it from the tournament hall. Hint: they do provide internet connection. You don't have to bring your hardware there.
Somone obviously still would have to fly over to Leiden to operate Stockfish. I have no clue about actual current regulations but amateur entries usually used to get some financial ICGA support when it is about this.
The title "world championship" is a lable that depends on the credibility ( of the public) connected with the event. It is difficult to beat the fact that FIDE recognizes ICGA events when it is about this.
The philosophy behind these events is that whatever you can come up with and that abides by the tournament rules is valid. Why do you consider hardware and book meaningless then? Especially as the Stockfish guys flamed Crafty for not scaling too well on 16+ cores just a few days ago? The ability to use big hardware to your advantage is part of the challenge.
Book is similar. I wouldn't know how to provide Stockfish with a decent opening book myself, as I'd see a decent chance to weaken it with any human intervention, but if someone could come up with an opening book that helps its performance, that's kind of creative work too and part of the silicon chess entity participating.
Everyone using the same book is clearly not the only kind of fair setup that can be conceived.
The setup of TCEC is just as arbitrary as that of an ICGA event ( I won't go into this now).
But it is clearly evident from the past that e.g. underestimating Junior in an ICGA event is clearly not that great an idea, even when you are way ahead of it in some rating list with your engine. To use an analogy from the human chessworld: Kasparov should have beaten Kramnik like a stepchild in 2000 rating-wise, yet it was not to be.

Deep Junior is no champion; Stockfish would absolutely destroy that engine (heck there are vast multitude of engines that would slap it around). We are talking about differences upwards of 300 Elo when comparisons between it and Stockfish, Komodo or Houdini are made. I really think that there is little to fear of Deep Junior. TCEC has revealed this numerous times. Hence, speaking about Stockfish and Deep Junior in the same paragraph is absurd. If everyone here wants to talk about deception go look on the HIARCS website and see what is said about Deep Junior. TCEC is a far more legitimate tournament when determining or attempting to determine today's strongest computer chess engine. Even Hyatt has ADMITTED this to me. Get your facts straight there. The TCEC isn't some conference tournament; it last upwards of four months. TCEC is the true world championship; wake the heck up from denial man. Use your brain. These ridiculous in-denial attitude or tendencies are hilarious and annoying. And the who the heck cares about what FIDE recognizes; computer chess is NOT something they care about.

Just to add, Houdini 3 managed to crush *world champion* Deep Junior in CCRL 40/40 in 21 moves. I don't see any 3000+ CCRL 40/40 game getting sjorter than that (my update is old though). Stockfish 2.x managed to do the same thing in 25 or so moves.